Hey Big Dip of Cope

In watching the replay of the throw to second that would have ended the Freedom-McDowell game in regulation, it was clear that catcher Chris Fine had thown the McDowell runner out by no less than 4 feet.
Repeated slow motion reveals that everyone in the shot was headed off the field except of course the base umpire who was signaling safe. Of course his was the only opinion that counted and he was in excellent position to make the call. The camera was shooting from the Press box but it was clear the tag was made by the second baseman and the runner was out by a wide margin. The play, if called correctly, would having given the Patriots a much needed road win.
My question is, could Freedom have appealed to you as home plate umpire for a ruling? You had an excellent vantage point as well.
Also, in the same game, another odd call was made regarding a ground rule double. If an outfielder raises his hands to signal the ball is unplayable, is play/time halted at the point he raises his hands? Shouldn't play continue until it is determined that the ball is in ground rule? If not, couldn't a savvy outfielder dupe the umpire and save a play/run for his team?
Finally a rules question that did not occur in that game.
On a ball 4, wild pitch. Ball goes to back stop and runner takes off to first. I notice a lot of players hustling on that play will make wide turns at first with the thought of headed to second. Once that turn is made, can the catcher throw behind the runner at first for the out?
Thanks

 

Answers from Umpire

the call at 2nd base is a judgement call by the field ump therefore no appeal can be made (unless he asked for help) and a partner umpire I am sure would not want to get into this judgement call.

yes the catcher can nail the runner who walked to first and feinted towards second. he can actually nail him for just being off the bag even if he walks down to the base slowly and overstrides the bag.

 

Ground rule double

yes a sharp outfielder might be able to get away with that BUT a great umpire should go out and make sure that the ball is really lodged or went under the fence. if he finds that it is a scam by the outfielder he can advance the runners to bases that in his judgement would have been achieved.

 

You are correct as usual Stretchlon. A coach may ask the umpire for help, but in this case (with the ump in good position) no way will it be granted.

The 2nd base play is usually the one they get right (particularly if a player avoids the tag) because they usually have great position. It's the 3rd base and 1st base play (1st B pulled off of bag while field ump as at 2nd) that can be missed. Many times the 3rd b play has the ump behind the runner and if the ball beats him to the bag, invariably, he will be out. I don't blame them, it's tough for only 2 to be able to cover the whole field. All I ask that they hustle to be in position...the results I'll live with.

 

Play at 3rd

Your right also Braves BUT lets all hope that at the play at 3rd the umpire will be good enough not to follow the runner and wind up only seeing his butt at the end of the play. head towards home and get the good angle and everyone might end up happy.

 

First of all, since I was the plate umpire in the JV game, that meant that I was the field umpire in the Varsity game. Thank you for seeing that I was in excellent position. However the position I was in, (which was the only one I could be in for that play) with the high throw, I was totally blocked off from seeing any tag. The fielder jumped, reached back and his body was totally in front of his tag, obstructing my view of any tag (I can't see through the fielder). That, combined with the fact that I did not hear a tag - leather hitting body or the scuffing of leather across a jersey - was the reason I called him safe. Unfortunatly umpires don't have the advantage of replay, views from the pressbox, or slow motion. On top off all that, Freedom's coaches and fans along the 1st base line had an excellent view of the tag/no tag, so if there was a tag, they surely saw it.

Answering your question though, there is no way the home plate umpire would have a better view than I did from his position about 120 feet away, so no, I would not appeal to him. If the coach would have asked, however, I would talk it over with him, but after the game he said he had no view on that play as well.

On the ground rule double play, if there were any question in my mind, or home plates mind that the ball went under the gate in LF, we would have checked after letting all runners score. We both saw clearly the ball roll under the gate, the 3B coach saw it roll under the gate as well - all he did was question the timing of the play. He thought that the runners got 2 bases from time the ball went under the fence; however the rule is from the time of the pitch.

Last rules question about the ball 4 wide turn, you are correct that runner is guarenteed 1st base, if he chooses to step off of 1st base after the base on balls, he is liable to be put out.

 

Thanks for that info

The umpire in the game in question DID NOT go out ot check on the ball's placement. Ending up costing Freedom a run.
In the play at second, as I said the replay clearly shows without question the tag was made and the runner is no where near the bag.
Ump simply blew the call. The only logical explaination is blue was looking at the base and assumed the throw would be on the bag. Since the throw was so early and the tag was made so far in fronnt of the bag, blue just didn't see it. Wish he could have looked at the tape with me.
Too bad.
Thanks again for the info

 

I love these "Ask The Umpire" questions. I used to think I was pretty good about the rules, but, in reality, I'm not. I hope the HS guys appreciate when they do have one...and I don't care what kind of personality they have, I just want one that knows the rules, works hard and is fair. Anything else is a bonus.

But, I am noticing a trend of the better umpires are going the college route. I don't blame them, but their replacements have a lot of room to grow.

The other thing I have noticed is the good umpires just like the good coaches don't do this just for the money. They love the game and the players that play it.

 

Balk help

BDOC,

Any suggestion on how to keep lefties from getting away with balking?

The more I see this, the more blatant it is becoming. I even know of coaches now teaching this because with a two man crew, it is very difficult to see from the angles they have and it is rarely called.

Never being out there, are the angles so severe that the play can not be seen therefore is not called? Is this ever mentioned as a point of emphisas?

Possible it may come back to haunt teams, players in play-off baseball with larger umpiring crews.

As the ORB states: 8.05
If there is a runner, or runners, it is a balk when --
(a) The pitcher, while touching his plate, makes any motion naturally associated with his pitch and fails to make such delivery;
Rule 8.05(a) Comment: If a lefthanded or righthanded pitcher swings his free foot past the back edge of the pitcher’s rubber, he is required to pitch to the batter except to throw to second base on a pick-off-play. (b) The pitcher, while touching his plate, feints a throw to first base and fails to complete the throw;
(c) The pitcher, while touching his plate, fails to step directly toward a base before throwing to that base;
Rule 8.05(c) Comment: Requires the pitcher, while touching his plate, to step directly toward a base before throwing to that base.

Lefties are starting toward the plate and seeing the runners leave and throw to first, landing with their step nowhere near, as the ORB states: directly toward first.

 

Thanks BDOC

I appreciate your reply and explanation. As I said, I figured you were watching the bag and listening for tag (kinda like a bang bang at first) Since you didn't hear it you had to call him safe. (He was out) I just wished you would have called him out thats all. If you had asked me for help I would have been happy to oblige.
See ya round the ball yard....I got to go to work!
TC