Should kids play Pop Warner Football?

I have listened to so many high school football coaches lament over the last few years whether Pop Warner is good or bad for high school football. Some say that by playing football at such a young age some kids burn out before middle school and high school. Other coaches say that kids learn so many bad habits in Pop Warner that it is better for a kid to wait until middle school or even high school before starting to play football. The biggest complaint seems to be that most coaches who volunteer their time seem to think that they are the second coming of Vince Lombardi and all they are really doing is moderating an elaborate game of tag for young kids. I would like to know what you think about Pop Warner football. Would you encourage your kid to play it or wait?

 

It depends on the situation. It works out perfect for Shelby High School. The kids are running the same formations in the pop warner league as they do at the high school level. These kids know the basics of the Shelby offense and the buck sweep, so they can line up with their eyes closed. Crest has just started the get that over the last few years.
South Point is another school where this happens.

 

Where this becomes a detriment to high school football is in McDowell County. The McDowell County Youth Football League has four divisions:

Hotdogs: Ages 5 & 6
Pups: Ages 7 & 8
(3 games at one time playing 30 yards apart, playing the width of the field)

Hounds: Ages 9 & 10
(Full-field games, line of scrimmage @ 50 yd line following a touchdown)

Dogs: Ages 11 & 12
(Full-field games, junior high/middle school rules)

The kids in McDowell County are starting WAY too early. The kids in the hotdog division have no clue on what they're doing and have no full understanding of the fundamentals of the game. The only reason as to why these kids start so early is because all of the kids' families will show up to watch them, which translates into MONEY. Once they get into the hounds and dogs division, the crowd level drastically diminishes to almost nothing. And by the time the kids get to McDowell High School, they're tired of football and want a normal adolesence.

Second, McDowell High's head coach, Dave Haynie, has tried to implement the offense and defense schemes of the coming season in the middle schools and try to filter it down into the youth leagues. However, the middle schools, year after year, REFUSE to implement the plays that the young men will use at McDowell.

So combine the two issues and you've got an equation of a program that has not succeeded on the high school level in a very, Very, VERY long time.

 

Solid Points Guys

Warden, why wouldn't the middle schools run the same offenses and defenses as the high schools? It makes solid sense, and if you were going to embrace Pop Warner football as a high school football coach, maybe you should try to get even the little guys to run a simplified version of the high school offense. I think you guys are on to something. Coaches could even use the same terminology for holes and plays all the way through. I still think though that ages 5-10 probably have no business playing football yet. Maybe I am wrong, but it seems to me that playing Pop Warner football is probably more cute to the parents than it is helpful to a kid's maturation as an athlete who chooses to play football later.

 

Junebug, its because those coaches want to run their own program and couldn't care less about what is ran at the high school. We are not apart of the Pop Warner program. We are an independent league to provide the kids of McDowell County with the chance to play football. Again, kids are being brought in at such young ages that do not comprehend of what is going on. Yet, it racks in alot of money. It's not about teaching the kids all about football, instead, it's all about how much money is being brought in.

If the coaches of the middle school teams and the youth league teams that play full field, implemented a simplified version of the McDowell offense & defense, the kids would have an understanding on how it works and could do it. Personally, I dont see it to be anything difficult in the summer for the middle school & youth league coaches to come together for a week in the afternoons and work on it. In the long run it would preserve the youth league and would make our middle school & high school teams much better.

Youth football is a great tool in teaching the fundamentals of the game, good sportsmanship, fair play, etc....And the kids learn that to an extent (Depends on which program you play for). But with the political bureaucracies that exist in such a small county, the things we try to teach our kids become lost in the shuffle.

 

I have been involved in the MCYFL for the past 8 years. I Recently stepped down due to personal considerations and intend to go back at some point in the future.

I can agree with some of your points. There are more people that attend the Hot Dog and Pup division games than the upper divisions. And they DO bring in more money! But I would have to ask you, where do you think the equipment these kids wear comes from? There ain't no helmet fairy dude! The league has to maximize profits each year to provide helmets, shoulder pads, 7 pad sets, jerseys, pants and mouthpieces. This doesn't include equipment to maintain these items as they get older. I dare you to find any youth league in WNC that has better, safer equipment.

Every year the league purchases insurance for the kids in the event that anyone gets injured. I would not be authorized to tell what the $ amount would be for that but it's way up there.

I would also inform you that the MCYFL gets no money from the cities of Marion or Old Fort, or McDowell county. No one will purchase a $500000 sports park for our kids to play in! All the money you talk about comes from sign-up fees and concessions. The field at East Jr. High is in rotten shape and no one will even invest in the $ to fix it.

The kids in the lower divisions for the most part do love playing the game. They only understand the very basics and it takes a lot of hard work to get them lined up, and teach them how to tackle properly which are the 2 main aims that need to be achieved at that level.

A big factor in why the league decided years ago to start taking these kids was the number of kids we were losing to youth soccer in the county. They also were starting with these age groups. We weren't seeing them come back.

WE TALKED TO COACH HANEY! He knew how difficult it would be to teach his offense to 6 different community teams. All he ever asked was that we use the same terminology and teach the basics. We do this. Add to that, he has switched offenses 3 times in 4 years. The league is even conducting their camp this year with Haney and is bringing in the Jr High kids too.

As for the Jr Highs, I agree wholeheartedly with you. Those coaches are only collecting a paycheck every year. They have no passion for the game. I will say that after this season, you may see a big change at West McDowell. I think you'll like it!

 

I like kids being in sports early if they're interested, and my opinion's remarkably uneducated. By the high school level, they should want to be in it regardless of whether they're new or experienced, and they should be willing to work hard regardless of how long they've been in it. Unless you're down to a 15 man team because of burnout, which I don't know if that would be true anyway, you're not going to lose talented or dedicated players.

 

I understand about the equipment and do know each team goes through great extent and expense to get top-notch equipment without bankrupting their team and the league itself. I know many of the teams have fundraisers to pay their share of the fees.

I worked with the league for the past two seasons.....And I believe the cost of insurance was around $5,000 for the 2007 season (correct me if I'm wrong). The other main transaction that the league made was for Pepsi and that cost about $3,500. Not to mention the weekly pizza & hot dog purchases that cost around $250 per week.

Fish, you dont have to tell me all about this...I know from playing on East McDowell's fields as a MCYFL player at Nebo & Glenwood and playing for East McDowell JHS, of how bad that field is. All it takes is the field to be ripped up, grub killer being applied (will take about 3 months for it to be ready to sew up), lime & fertilizer, and grass seed. East McDowell athletics' director Dave Comer has said that this repair has been approved, but we'll believe it when we see it.

You're right, the money that comes into the league comes from sign-up fees and paid concessions, but don't forget that the revenues of the league also come from paid admissions of the spectators. During this past season, we had a major issue in people NOT PAYING to get into the games. Basically, you have parents that pay for their kids to play, but wind up screwing them over by not paying to get into games. Several league officials counted the number of people that failed to pay and it resulted to enough money that could have paid for another referee (We had around 4 each week). They've come in by not paying through the upper gate and the lower gate (when unattended) and according to a league board member, saw people climb over the fence that seperates the parking lot from the stadium. Again, we're talking about $2 per adult and $1 per student, it's not like we're charging $20+ per seat like at a college game. If the league plans on remaining in operation and crap like this continues, don't be surprised if sign-up and gate admission fees go up. It's the nature of the beast (aka business).

Still, these kids are playing way too early and by the time they reach the high school level or even the junior high level, they're burned out. Some of the best players Ive seen that would make a big impact at McDowell High never play because they're tired of it. God knows we need as much talent as possible to stay competitive in a league in which certain teams (I.E.-A.C. Reynolds, Freedom, & East Burke) produce stud players like a factory.

At the middle school level, both East & West should be going by the MHS playbooks and learn their offense and defense every single year. In recent years, alot of these bigger high school programs are starting to take over the middle school programs that feed into their high school. I think it would be great if MHS would take over the football programs at East & West and completely rebuild it through strength & conditioning programs, film sessions, fundamental drills, etc.

In other words, the entire system needs reform.

 

If your idea for reform is to torque off half the school system that provides the fields they practiced and played on, then I want no part of your idea of reform JON.
And I"d like to know where all this talent is that is so burned out on football. As far as I am aware, everyone that wants to be out there is there. It's like the old addage, "we'll play with what we got". I would rather have kids on the field that want to be there. If they quit playing, then they probably never really wanted to be there in the first place.
There are 2 major obstacles to football in McDowell County
1. East and West Jr High
2. The apothetic public that will not get behind anything in this county but girls b-ball and baseball. I remember a Friday night in 1984 when 13000 people walked through the gates to see us play Freedom. Now less than half show up and half of that doesn't even get up for the game if they watch it at all.

As to the dishonest people who always try to beat the gate at our games, they have to live with themselves, I don't.

If the league was only interested in the money these kids bring in then:
1. Where is all the money going besides back into the program? I know I didn't get any. Hell I spent alot of my own in being involved with the league.
2.Why are we the only league in McDowell County that allows hardship cases to play for free and pays for these cases physicals every year? Everyone else charges higher sign-up fees and it's "no pay no play".

Finally, I will not sit by and watch the MCYFL get run down on these boards by a fired former employee of the league. If you had any axe to grind it should have been done a long time ago. It is the BEST run youth program in McDowell County. (And the only one that recieves no public funding)

The initial question was should children play pop warner (youth) football. The answer is yes, oh hell yeah, let them get out there and chop wood as soon as they're old enough to have equipment to fit them. Make it fun for them and don't take winning and losing too seriously. Then as they mature teach them the more detailed fundamentals of the game, sportsmanship, and the TEAM concept. And still keep it fun for them. If every coach would just take the time to show how much joy there is to be experienced in the sport, then the kids who really love the game will never quit!
This is my last post in this thread. Okay you all can ban me now.

 

First of all, LEE... I was not allowed to grind my axe because the minds of the board members were all made once the issue was brought up in the weekly meeting. I tried to tell each and every person at that meeting that I thought I had backing of a board member in sending the email out. You've read it. All it basically said was that we are independent and the only monies that come into our organization was through paid admissions, concessions, and sign-up fees and that we rely on those to pay for the league's operations, activities, and equipment. All that I was trying to do was ensure that all persons coming to our games, whether they be teachers or families of players/cheerleaders, to pay the reasonable admission fees set forth by the MCYFL. I also put that if persons were caught not paying that there are penalties. I tried apologizing for my actions and stated that I would make amends, but in the eyes of the league...it wasnt good enough.

What's not seen by the MCYFL and you is that Ive met all but one principal (waiting till she returns from vacation), in whom I contacted. I sat with them and apologized for my actions and pleaded with them that the actions of one to not ruin the entire program for all. I also asked the principals that the working relationships between the schools and the MCYFL not be severed because of this. I had no intention that the email was to cause such an uproar and that what I was doing, in my opinion, was in the best interest of the league.

Another thing, the board never took one ounce of consideration of my good job performance (per the board) as statistician and pubic address announcer. Had the board not got into a frantic eccentric episode, they should have taken my job in consideration along with my accident. But not one board member did. The board chose to kick me out to try to save face. So I guess it means nothing when someone admits to a mistake.

One of your colleagues, within your team, said that when I do things inside the league it was done to make me look good and had no regards to the kids. BULLSHIT. I did numerous things while in the league (that had no knowledge of the league board) that was trying to put more money into the league and to promote itself, and not me. Here are a few examples...

1) Radio Coverage. I tried very hard in getting the MCYFL Championship Games (hounds & dogs) on WBRM Radio so that all McDowell County residents would have the abilities to listen if they could not attend the game. Also it gives the championship game participants the extra incentive to do well because the entire county was listening. I was trying to solicit the help of the MHS Sportscasters' Club to help in the payment of the airtime so that it would not cost the league a dime. I argued for a solid hour to WBRM owner, Annette Bryant, trying to get the games on the air only for her to say that she does not care about the games and that it was a waste of the station's time. I went up there and did this not for my personal gain, but so that the kids would get more exposure.

2) Grants. While as a part of the league, I was researching grants that the league could obtain through the government. This would have been free money that doesn't have to be paid back to help pay for the insurance, Pepsi, equipment, trophies, & etc. I have a friend of mine that works near me that is a licensed grant writer and would have wrote the grant for us, free of charge. I tried doing this so that things could be paid for and that the league could save up on the money brought in each week.

3) Sponsors. I was in talks with certain businesses to help fit the bill on certain items to help the league. In return, we promote their businesses over the PA. Again, this was done to put money back into the league and not in my pocket.

But I was still labeled as one that that did things for personal gain. I don't take Community Service Leave in my job for things I do for myself. If you remember, I had to file a great amount of paperwork along with getting the documents from the league that proved to the DOC that I was doing a community based work.

What was my gain out of all of this? $40 per day? A tank of gas? If I did it for the money, I wouldn't have been apart of it. I participated in the league as a child and it was a way to give back. And would do it again if I was brought back. If not, there are other counties that have offered to hire me in the same capacities I served the MCYFL in, and I would be privileged to work for them.

The reform I was speaking of was MHS coaches taking over the jr. high teams and do conform them into one operation. I didnt torque anything off deliberately. If you believe I did, you're a moron.