When Is It Obstruction ??

I'll add this....

....runner from 3rd going home to score, changes her mind, then gets caught in a run down. You know, the catcher heads her back to 3rd, 3rd chases her back to home,....ya'll know the routine. Well the pitcher falls in line of the run down and is definitely in the baseline and simply tags the runner out. Out! nope, as this guy saw it. he said, and this was 3 yrs ago, the Fed rules. etc were an attempt to protect injury to players and that a def. player could not obstruct the proper base lane taken by an on coming baserunner, if she in fact did not have the ball. We at TBR have hade this discussion over and over and it still freaks me out. I personally like how a catcher blocks the plate and rides a runner off of it while making the tag. I think its one of those 'ol timers plays of the game. But, times change, and like it or not, the rule as I understand it, and believe me, I've argued for and against it in games, goes like this.....A def. player cannot be in the path of a runner without the ball. "path of the runner"!!!!! is the KEY coaches. Take for example a kid starting out on 2b, bam, basehit, she guns for home,......her natural lane of the baseline will be arcing out and around 3rd headed for home. If the catcher will set up with her right foot inside the foul line and her left foot just to the foulside, then she in fact is not obstructing the runners "right" to reach the plate. Other examples to follow!

 

As a coach......

....it appears to me that its in YOUR best interest to address "what is mr. umps view on obstruction", when you meet the opponent, and their kids, at home plate to address the rules about, PLHHHHHHH an earing, or the piece of crap fence that if the ball goes under........, etc. Maybe by asking the umps to take time to explain a rule like this, to the kids, BAM it might make some sense and go in the right direction.! JMO .....to be continued!!!!!

 

Hate it!!!!

....and I feel your pain!!!! Look friend, this situation of a runner, in her path, proceeding to the next base, ESPECIALLY, when its a force play, and the runner has to move up, has the crappy existence of the batted ball coming right at her, is well, an out, any way you want to paint the picture coach, of your kid getting out of the way, ....and I have done that very thing, ......there is something inherit about this rule that is always going to be called in the fielders way. ...to be continued

 

Interference....

...is what is called, not obstruction. Respect to the Guru thread of obstruction , this rule is not only geared for the shear injury factor of being "spiked", or run slam ass over, its also meant to make this EXTREMELY FAST GAME, which seems like sometimes is governed by folks who just have a hard time picking up their underwear off the bathroom floor, *****(We'll go here later)....*****a game that needs to be monitored for the games BEST interest, and see THAT our kids are getting bigger faster and stronger, ....Its our concern as parents, adults and yep, umps to see fit, that we all come together to see that the game stays wholesome. Now I'm finished with this thread. Peace!




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Obstruction

In ALL levels, except for NCAA, a player MUST have possession of the ball prior to blocking any base. This means that contact does not have to be made, just that in the umpires' opinion, what the defender did caused the runner to alter her path to the base. This includes but is not limited to plays at the plate and other bases where a runner might be rounding to attemp to obtain the next base. On the play where the ball was hit to the shortstop and she missplayed the ball and it went behind her and then contacted the runner, by rule the runner would not be out. Only if the misplayed ball stays in front of and within reach would the contact by a runner be consider illegal.

 

agree wiht nc2aump

This is how I understood the rule as well. I ran into a situation last year and the saw the field ump at a later date, after a lonnnng discussion on a forum board. and what nc2aump said, was how I read the ASA rule, and same said this ump.

In this situation, as luck would have it, my kid was involved ( I was not coaching). She was playing second base defense, the runner got in a pickle, after about 2 player rotations, the second baseman ended up having to take the play at second rather than working the runner back to 1st. my kid came for behind second base to take the throw, which ended up in the dirt, a short hop. In one motion, Kim fielded, and as she was bring the glove down for the tag, (slide now occuring), she was moving to block the bag, in that instant she dropped the ball but it bouned right back up into her mitt and she applied the tag at that moment. she was called for obstruction as she did not have control during that one fraction of a moment, but was infront of the bag. (she insisted she gave her the outside corner of the bag, and the rule to my recolection does say all you have to give, is a way to the bag. so, I think a lot of that is simply what the ump feels during the play. Which in general is always the issue. They are the judge for many things, right or wrong. Having done some limited calling myself, its not always that pleasant, lol. so as fast as that happened, I didnt get mad at the ump or anything, just seemed petty for all that was going on.

I had to hand it to Kim though, I mean, she was 13, all 105 lbs of her, facing a very large 15year old varsity catcher coming down full bore, and didnt flinch, lol. moxy.

 

Obstruction

Please understand that I spend half of the year training umpires for the NCAA level, and the biggest problem I run in to, are officials that cannot leave their personal view out of the judgement when they are applying the rule. Some feel the need to overanalyze the situation. At some point all we can hope for is that a smide of common sense will enter in. In the situation you discribed, obstruction should not have been called, the intent of the rule is to keep defensive players from gaining an advantage by setting up fro a play before the runner has a chance to determine her path. The only thing the official should have said was that she gained control prior to the tag being applied.

 

Oh, I agree

I thought he even called it a little early. It seemed he called it even before the slide took place and the defense was moving from behind the bag forward. however, in his defense, due to making sure he was out of the way of play, which was going back and forth he ended up in a position towards the outfield, that might have given him a view that seemed Kim had crossed in front of the bag, before getting the ball. I believe, that he believed that, regardless whether the player thought it or not. so it was just circumstances. we didnt win or lose dependant on that play either. wasnt a national championship at stake or anything. so personally no reason to beat the guy up a bunch.

I feel for ya man. teaching a goof like me how to call games is an eye opener. I was up in Seattle watching the huskies play Alabama for the super regionals last year. and that plate ump needed some lessons man. I cant imagine taking on your responsibility. I think its good, for someone who has that responsibility to come in here and clarify when you can. of course your never going to make everyone happy. but its nice to see it professionally spelled out. kudos.

 

Obstruction/interference

Marlin, Sorry if I was confusing. I knew what GURU was talking about with obstruction. To me the obstruction rule is pretty well defined, you can't impede the runner without possession of the ball. I'm now teaching my girls how to sweep tag. I was asking what everyone thought about the 'step and reach' rule as it pertains to interference. The point I was talking about tho was, the ball got thru the SS a little way and my runner was trying to give more room to avoid the interference call and was called out for leaving the baseline. As a 20 year umpire, I feel sometimes rules are revised, with the best intentions, that CAN leave coaches, players, and umpires guessing which interpetation to follow. In the above situation, if my runner doesn't give more ground, runs over the SS ... 1. the ump calls interference and possibly ejects my runner for malicious contact and I'm questioning his interpetation. 2. the ump doesn't call interference and the other coach is questioning his interpetation and maybe tells his players not to try to avoid contact. The way it was, he called my runner out for leaving the baseline. I didn't say too much. I understood his predicament. If he hadn't called her out, I'm sure the other team woulda been upset.