Scoring questions

I posted this question on another site and got 10 different answers - all who claimed to know what they were talking about. I need help from someone with lots of scoring experience. Situation in a high school game. No outs - runners at first and second. Game is tied. Bottom of 7th. Batter lays down perfect bunt - intended to be a sacrifice but rolls about halfway down the third baseline. There is no chance to throw out the batter at first - left handed batter with decent speed. Pitcher fields ball and throws to third to get lead runner out - but throw is too late. The at bat for the batter can not be a sacrifice since by definition no one was put out. It should not in my opinion be a FC since there was no play at any base. I think it is a base hit since it does not qualify as a FC or a SAC. Without any runners on base the batted ball would have been a base hit. Ultimately, the ball was thrown away at 3rd and the winning run scored - scored on E-1 - no RBI to the batter. Any feedback????

 

If there's no chance to get anyone I would think it is a hit with the runner advancing home on a throwing error. No rbi awarded. Now if there is a chance to get the runner at third and the ball is thrown away, I would rule no hit, fc with a 2 base throwing error to score the runner.

 

Lots of judgment on the play, hence the differing answers. I'm a little fuzzy on the throw. You say it was late, but it is thrown away. Are you assuming that the throw was late, or the runner was already on the bag when the throw gets there (and then gets away from the fielder)? It makes a difference.

First off, you're wrong (sorry). There can be a sacrifice with no put outs. If, in the scorer's judgment, an out should have been made (Rule 10.08a), then you credit the batter with a sacrifice and then charge an error on the throw away - E1T sac bunt (the batter is not charged with an at-bat, but the error justifies the safe batter). That's in the case that the defense attempts to put out the batter and throws it away or muffs handling the ball, etc. Doesn't really apply here, but just making that clarification.

Aside of that, if, in the scorer's judgment, there should have been an out on the play, then you're in the 10.08b section, and I quote... "Score a sacrifice bunt when, before two are out, the fielders handle a bunted ball without error in an unsuccessful attempt to put out a preceding runner advancing one base, unless, an attempt to turn a bunt into a putout of a preceding runner fails, and in the judgment of the official scorer ordinary effort would not have put out the batter at first base, in which case the batter shall be credited with a one-base hit and not a sacrifice."

Now, in your case, you have an error on the play. That changes things a little. The scorer has some options. If they think that the bunt is so good that no one would be put out with normal effort, it's a single and an error. If the error scores the run, there would not be an RBI. If the scorer thinks that the lead runner should be put out with normal effort, there's no single and no sacrifice, just a fielder's choice and en error. If the throw is good and the receiver muffs it, then give the thrower and assist (nobody ever scores it that way, but that's the rule).

It's a judgment call and you'd have to ask the scorer how they saw it and what should have happened with normal effort.

In your view (great bunt and no one could be put out), then I'd say single and error, scoring the run, no RBI.

 

Hope this helps

Sounds very easy. IF in scorer's judgement the batter would not have been putout at 1st base then it is a base hit. (actually this play happened yesterday at Wesleyan College.) The error on the play let's run score with no rbi.

PS: please be sure that the runner at 3rd would not have been out on the play before the error occured otherwise it could be ruled a fielder's choice with an error.

 

Hoops and Strechy have it correct as you described it.

The only thing that I would add, is that it is possible to have a FC and not record an out. Ex: pitcher fields bunt and attempts to get a lead runner but throw is late instead of taking the option of retiring the batter. From the way you described the situation (that the in your opinion the bunt was so well placed that niether the batter or any runners would be retired with normal effort) that does not apply to your situation. In the example that I gave you, it is possible that you have a situation where you still credit the batter with a SAC and he reaches via FC even though no out was recorded.

I really like that you are trying to score it correctly and not just awarding hits and RBIs.

 

Lots of variables and seeing the play unfold is the only true way to score it....BUT....

Based on the info, I would have to score it a FC, with an E1T, run scoring on error and runner advancing on existing error and no RBI

Of course, if it's your home team boy, you could score it a double with 2 rbi's....lmao....and I have SEEN home cooking like that at ball parks in HS. That's why often, it is tuff to buy into some of the stats you read. Some time the official scorer of the home team can get pretty liberal with their interpretation... last summer, I was witness to official scorers scoring hits for fielders choice. Uhm, just because you reach base does NOT make it a hit, bubba....

But like was said, I think it's cool yer trying to score it correctly. I score a lil tuffer than most, but I always try to be fair to both teams....

 

Well don't know how "by the book" this is, but my personal opinion was always if its a hit, then there's no doubt. I agree with what Stretchy says above, that "if in the scorekeeper's opinion the batter would've been safe", its a hit.

However, when theres other runners involved and the defense makes an attempt on another runner instead of the batter, this can get confusing to many. IMO, if theres a bunt or groundball where the defense attempts to get someone else out, even if they failed, by the very fact of them making an attempt on someone else,,,,, I would rule it Fielder's Choice to the batter.

As for the example above, you said the defense attempted a play at 3B, so to me it would be FC. If the defense had made a play to 1B or just held the ball because the bunt was so good, then give him a hit. But because they made a play to another base on someone else, to me thats a FC.

Just my 2 cents.

 

This is how I would have approached the scoring. Although i did learn something regarding the assist/muff rule. thanks for pointing that out hoops.

 

Actually, if there is a "doubt" as to whether it is a hit or not the batter is
credited with a hit. If there is not "doubt" if a good throw would have beaten the runner or if the fielder could have got the batter out at first then it would be scored as a FC and an error on the throw.

 

Johnny

Johnny got 3 hits today. Two rolled back to the pitcher and the third one went between the 1B legs! That's 3 for 3 right?