You Make the Call

Travel Ball tournament being played under high school rules:

Situation: runners on 1st and 2nd with one out. batter hits a soft liner to second baseman. opposing team coaches yell 3 outs and his players run off the field. runner on 2nd realizes there is only two outs and proceeds to 3rd. runner on 1st is confused and heads toward the third base dugout (approximately 5 to 6 ft. off 1st base) when she realizes there is only two outs. She runs back to first base and the opposing team runs back on the field and the pitcher picks up the ball. The opposing coaches argue that the runner on 1st base should be out because she ran out of the baseline (although there was never a play being made on her). The ups discuss for a while and call the runner on 1st out.

 

My understanding (I am not saying it is right - don't know the rule) is that as soon as the player starts heading towards the dugout, she has taken herself out of play even if she doesn't actually enter the dugout. Whether it is on a dropped third strike or this case, I believe she is out. Don't think it had anything to do with being out of the baseline...

 

She should not be out for "running out of the baseline", because she was not avoiding a tag.

But she may be called out under rule 8-4-2r for "...leaving the baseline, obviously abandoning her effort to touch the next base."

 

The opposing coaches should be embarrased and ashamed! They created the problem by not knowing the situation. They then try to turn it into their advantage. They yelled 3 outs and had team running off field - they then appeal beacause a runner did also?

Play the game under protest for having to compete with unethical, stupid coaches using any tactic to win a youth girls game!

 

Not Out

Since it seems the pitcher put the ball on the ground or at least someone did, there is no baseline, the runner at first did not abandon her attempt because she didn't enter the dug out. That rule is usually enforced when the batter/runner moves backwards torwards home plate to avoid a tag or enters the dug out area after a dropped 3rd strike. After touching first, you can move backwards in the baseline with no penalty unless the movement is an obvious attempt to interfere with a fielder attempting to field the ball on the initial play. Sorry Blues, you missed it. And if the coach had his team leave the field on purpose, I would call that 'making a travesty of the game'.

 

Jeopardy

The umps have the ability to " fix " this type of issue, when they make a call or signal that puts the offense in "Jeopardy".. ie call a fly ball a catch, then no catch... or no call... ( mostly called too early) and then reverse it while the offense has reacted to the first call.

They also have the ability to "fix" this if the opposing team
creates situations that was a blatant attempt to disquise or confuse the opposing team, by vocal or other signals...

This jeopardy rule was initiated back in 2005 by the NCAA to prevent what you describe.... I am not sure, but would believe that ASA also adapted it.

Opposing coach ought to have his A#@ kicked.

 

Intentional?

Does anyone know if this was really intentional by the coaches? I agree with swingaway that they should know the situation but just getting confused is much different than doing it on purpose. It is easy to get caught up in the game and make mistakes...

If a team did do something like this on purpose, is there any recourse to prevent him/them from coaching in future tournaments?

 

If the Def. coach truly thought....

...that his kids had just recorded the "3rd" out, AND MOST importantly, the ump, perceived the D coaches stupidity as just that, stupidity, then the ball is live and the baserunners can advance. As far as the "1b" baserunner, heading back to the dugout, thats where the gray area comes into play. IF the ump thinks that the D coach "tried to pull one over on the O coach", then a different set of rules are applied. Example, I was at 3rd, bases loaded, 2balls on the batter, next pitch, ball 3, but here trots into home, my 3b baserunner. She crossed the plate, and the other runners advanced. I'd be that stupid coach not knowing the count. My runners were awarded stolen bases. Now, when I was in Fla. I asked as many UICs this type question, and all of them said the same thing.......a defense cannot intentionally create these type of plays. .......Morale of this thread.....Know your outs, bat count, and what you're gonna do with the ball when its in play.

 

She's not out!

An opposing player nor coach can do anything to deceive a runner or batter into committing a violation. The situation should have been corrected to a runner a 1st and 3rd and the opposing coach should have been warned whether he did it intentionally or not. WindMllr was right. This is why the summer time travel umpires need extensive training. So anyone, go out, buy a blue shirt, grey pants, and a hat and PRESTO! you're an umpire. This is becoming a major problem.