D1 vs DII

Lefty- when are you going to get Tusculum to change their name to a proper spelling...it's Tusculem.

The problem that coaches and supporters of D2 programs have is the arrogance of which this thread has tried to cultivate. "Yeah, D2's are nice programs. It gives everybody a place to play if they don't play D1". Usually those comments are made from people who have never or rarely ever watched a D2 game.

North Carolina is probably the only state in the country that has developed that snobbery and arrogance to the other divisions (be it D2, D3 and Juco). I never hear those remarks in other states, including Florida and Texas.

The point others are trying to make is there are outstanding baseball programs at the D2 level that certainly could compete with other D1 schools..and to reiterate, D1 does not mean ACC or SEC schools only. Those are the cream of the crop.

I cited Clemson for this reason. It's an elite program that has suffered a tough year. I believe there are some D2 conferences that they would not have dominated "this year", thus the term struggle. I imagine the supporters of Clemson baseball would have used a stronger term.

And to ensure there is no mistake to my meaning. I have played against Clemson and have followed their program for over 30 years. I know what they are about and the deserved recognition of their program. I would never say that any D2 program could beat them consistently every year..or for that matter, any year.

 

I'm OK w/ you holding this opinion...& I'd be w/ you were it not for what I've witnessed this season. I saw D1 & D2 games. Especially relevant: I saw Wake Forest twice & I saw Mt Olive play about a dozen games.

Take Mt Olive's weekend starters. Absolutely positively beyond-a-shadow-of-a-doubt Hodges & Schlecht would be #1 & #2 for Wake Forest. I put that in red because we all know that pitching (and foot speed) are the greatest differences between levels. Well, both Hodges & Schlecht throw in 90's (verified on TV radar) w/ nasty sliders & off speed. Wake Forest would not have won 56 games playing the same schedule. Nope...I don't believe that for a second.

 

THose two are very nasty, pitched against us this year and they could be #1 and #2 at a lot of schools in D1. But what im still trying to figure out if D2 isn't as good why don't D1 teams play them. It wouldn't count to season because our basketball team played UT and it counted as an exibition game. If D2 is so bad then it's an easy win for D1 teams and get all their pitchers some work but wouldn't it be really bad for a team like Mt. Olive to beat Carolina and show people that smaller schools are getting just as good.

 

I haven't been on the board in a few days and this was the first thing I saw.

I am going to go ahead and throw my opinion in and I will give you a couple of reason why my opinion matters more than most.

#1 I was a 1st team all-American and MVP of the ACC several years ago. If anyone knows more about pitching in the ACC it could only be one of three other people since I have the fourth most innings pitched in the history of the league. One of the others is no longer with is...

#2 I got drafted as a senior in the 14th round after never being drafted before and signed for 10,000$ but wasn't allowed in any negotiation...

#3 I have been coaching Div 2 baseball the past four years. And have seen several of the top d2 teams in the country, including a 3 game set with this years National champion- Mt. Olive...

Braves and the other folk who know me know I ain't wasting time to type all this to brag. Frankly, I haven't done much of anything special as a coach and I played with a ton of players who were more talented than I was and guys who played a lot more pro ball for a lot more money.

My point is just about everyone involved in this thread is biased to their own ends. I'm gonna set it all straight right now.

It is obvious that any ACC team would be better than most any Div 2 school. That is one of the top leagues in the country. It is obvious that most players who are capable of playing in the ACC, (not just being on the team but actually playing), are better than most div 2 players. But the rest of the talent in mid to low level d1 is not as good or better than the best players in D2. Carolina beat the crap out of everybody this season so why is it some big insult to say they would beat the crap out of a d2 staff.

Chad Flack was not drafted because he has gone backwards as a prospect, maybe not a player, but as a prospect. The power is gone, the average is well below the top tier of ACC talent, the athleticism in the field and on the basis is well below major league average. he is a great leader and role player for the best dynasty in our areas history, but he will be working for a living in a couple of years and using his UNC degree to his advantage. David Thomas is twice the player and five times the pro prospect Flack is.

Lastly, the number one difference is the speed of the game. Pitchers throw a little harder,(hence better draft prospects), outfielders get to balls in the gap a little better. INfielders can make plays D2 guys don't quite have the range or arm for, and catchers/base runners are .1 seconds quicker.

The player itself is not different. The athlete usually is.

I know someone is gonna take a little part of this and take it out of context or even quote half a paragraph to use for your argument. but I am saying right now if you don't understand or get what I just wrote you don't know squat. This is the unbiased truth from someone who knows better than anyone else I can think of. If there is someone out there with more ACC, PRO, D1, and D2 background I wold love to talk to you.....

 

Ok I congrat you on all your accomplishments.

No one ever said they would beat the crap out of them we stated that Mt. Olive could give them a really fair game because some think Carolina would score 30 on them. We have stated Carolina is a good team but you don't think with the playing field getting a lot closer than four years ago that Mt. Olive couldn't finish .500 or better in the ACC.

I don't think your response has settled anything whatsoever because I have also played a 3 game set against Mt. Olive this year and I believe when people saying that Carolina or any ACC would blow them out is beyond my belief.

I can honestly say that the best outfielder I have ever seen and if you need to base what i've seen throughout my career then you can ask Braves the type of players I have seen that Carlos Rivera is the best outfielder ever. He has so many great catches that he could have his own ESPN top ten plays.

Maybe the speed of the game being slower is due to the fact your team being slow, bad arms, bad routes to the ball, or catcher not having a good arm(im just throwing some ideas out there),and the other teams just suck.

 

The man has spoken. olefty seems to be more knowledgeable about this than all of us.

To answer the question I was asked, I saw Mount Olive and Catawba play this season, but not Tusculum or Francis Marion.

Like olefty said, every ACC team is better than every division 2 team. That's my only argument. Sure, a Mount Olive could beat a Virginia Tech on the right day, but on a day-to-day basis, the worst ACC teams are better than the best D2 teams.

I've conceeded in many other posts that the gap isn't that huge between low D1 and high D2. I just want it to be clear that D2 dynasties wouldn't be .500 in the ACC, no matter how big of a homer for D2 LClefty might be.

 

I'm not saying that D2 ball is the same as D1 ball but what I hate is people coming on here saying only the best talent comes from the D1 level. If these teams are so much better why don't they play D2 teams? I am not saying Mt. Olive would win the ACC easily but with their team I do believe they could pull 3rd or 4th in either division if not better or worse, who knows. The speed of the game can be slow in either D1 or D2 ball, depends on the pitching staff and how the coaches like to play the game.

This is my opinion and I dont really care what you've done or the accomplishments of anyone on here, so i'm sticking to it. I have played with and against a ton of D1 talent and players that went on to a D1 school, played at a highly competitive JUCO and a nationally ranked D2 school, played AAU ball that finished 3rd at World Wood bats in Jupiter Fl. and so I have seen some players here and there. So I do know a little bit about players and talent, so i'm not going to back down, sorry for the inconvience but i'm hard-headed...

 

So a team that just won the D2 National Championship would finish last in the ACC? They are not better than VT? Duke? BC? Maryland?


Ah yes we should all stop this convo because one person has spoken and well since thats the case I guess this thread is over because we know nothing at all....interesting.

If you look what i've posted i'm not a homer for D2 i'm just taking up for that division. I have said many times that D1 does carry the edge but i'm not going to sit here and let people run over D2 ball. It actually looks like your the homer for olefty...

 

Division 1 teams don't play Division 2 teams for the same reason they don't play Division 3 teams or JuCo's. You play teams that are on your own level.

UNC playing Mount Olive in baseball is like a guy wrestling a girl. He's almost sure to win, but he has nothing to gain from it, and everything to lose.

Just like the NFL doesn't play against the Arena League and the NBA teams don't play against the Developmental League teams and the Major League teams dont play against the Minor League teams. Teams tend to play teams who are on their own level.

And yes, I firmly believe that Duke is a better baseball team than Mount Olive. Duke won 37 games this season, and did not lose a single game the entire season to any opponents outside of the ACC. They were that good, and they didn't even qualify for the ACC tournament! They came in 9th.

 

First of all, I have to say that olefty is an expert on this topic. I know him and know he has seen both aspects D1 and D2 as a player and coach. IMHO, he is an authority.

Let me say this, I have seen both D1 and D2 games this year and in years past, if you look at the top tier D2 programs, they could compete in many mid major conferences. Within the major conferences, such as the ACC and SEC, BIG 12 an PAC 10, they would have difficulty cracking the upper echelon of any of those conferences due to the fact that these teams get the top tier players in the country. You cannot compare the athleticism of these teams to D2.

Just my 2 cents worth...