SHOWCASE vs AMERICAN LEGION

What heated post have there been?

 

That's not at all what I'm saying. The college coaches attend the showcase events. They don't rely on people to tell them who's good. I never once said that they simply sign people based off of a showcase coach's word without never seeing the kid.

In the era of IMPACT, performance in showcase ball against other top notch competition means alot more to college coaches these days than performance in high school ball during the spring does. I think that's a sad story, because in the Spring its truly about winning for the team instead of just worrying about your individual stats in showcase ball. I personally think there are intangibles (such as competitiveness and being able to perform in clutch situations) that you cannot pick up on simply by watching a showcase game where the outcome is meaningless. That's just the way it is though. As TravisUNC said, the scouts want to see good vs good. That's why they pay more attention to the showcase stuff and not really as much to high school games.

 

The reason the scouts like certain showcases is you have a pool of talent all at one place. It certainly saves on the recruiting budget. If scouts are so interested to see all the intangibles in one sitting then why do they watch for a couple of innings then move on to another game? They saw what they wanted to see.

They have very little time to scout during the HS season and the times that they do, they are following a player they have already signed.

 

I was referring to the 2nd post by Braves that this topic has gotten heated at times. I hope it doesn't. I like the topic.

 

Again, that is simply incorrect. Coaches and scouts both like showcases in part because of the "good vs. good" competition you're talking about, but mainly because it gets a lot of kids in the same space at one time. It's an enormous pain to keep traveling to different places to scout different kids, while it's much easier if you have several guys you can watch at once. It's a convenience thing, but they'll still give you just as much attention if you don't play showcases.

That's the part you're wrong about when you say that showcase performances matter "a lot more" than spring performances. That is absolutely not the case. MLB teams draft and college teams offer scholarships based on talent even more so than production, and those guys can see that talent whether you're playing in a showcase or a single A high school team.

To give you a draft example, scouts were talking about how Anthony Hewitt consistently struggled in showcases last summer. He was just flat out getting dominated because he's very raw and inexperienced. But in case you didn't notice, he still went 24th overall to the Phillies because those scouts were still evaluating based on his tools and his potential, not what he did during showcases.

You are seriously driving me up the wall when you say stuff like this because you just don't know what you're talking about. How many scouts do you know? Chances are good (29 out of 30) that they're not under the MLB scouting director I've worked with, but just in case, why don't you pass along the name of the scouts who don't pay attention to high school games? I'm sure he'll be interested to hear if it's one of his guys so that they can be fired and replaced, especially given that the scouts I know regularly have associate scouts go to high school games and report on individual players. The area scouts and crosscheckers only come out when they've narrowed down the list to someone special, but they will fly across the country to see a high school game for someone like that. College coaches do have a harder time simply because the high school season overlaps with their own, but they have people go out and watch those high school games too.

Like I said, scouts and coaches like showcases because it makes their lives easier by gathering a lot of players in own place. I know this because I actually know scouts and college coaches. But please do not say that they don't pay attention to high school games because that's false, just as it was false when you said that they won't call unless you promote yourself, or that it's not enough to simply do well with your high school team. I am trying to avoid being insulting because I respect the tone of the Preps forum, but I'm telling you that what you're saying is not accurate.

 

Little

bumping exiting turn two. A little trading paint.

 

Most posters don't know who one poster is over another. So let me say that Collin is a very informative poster that forces one to backup their statement with facts. I don't always agree with his conclusions and rarely will he get style points, but his opinion will be backed by facts. So if one chooses to argue his points it will save everybody some time by bringing "meat" with your points.

I appreciate your respect towards the forum, Collin

 

First of all, I'm going to start by saying that I appreciate your smart lip, but at least lets make it clear that the things said in your posts are YOUR OPINIONS, just like the things said in my posts are my opinions. You act as if it's black and white, you are right and I am wrong. Not the case.

Moving on, no matter what the reason may be, the scouts flock to the showcase games way more often than a high school game. You can say its because of convenience because they can see 'good vs good', you can say its because they dont have much time to get out during the spring when their own team is playing, or you can say that it's simply because showcase ball is taking over as the primary way to be seen for NC high school baseball players. Whichever one of these three things you believe, you still wind up with the same conclusion. For one reason or another, it's way easier to get seen at a showcase event than at a high school game. And that's the point.

You said they will still give you just as much attention if you don't play showcases. This is true IF they already know about you. In my posts, I'm referring to players who are waiting to be seen for a college program by the first time. It's very unlikely that they will be seen by the likes of UNC, NCSU, Wake, Duke, App, UNC-W, UNCG, UNCC, etc...just because a scout from one of these schools randomly happens to stop by one of their high school games. However, at a showcase event, these schools are frequently in attendance and if you happen to go 4-4 one day in front of them, bingo. You made a name for yourself.

I'm not talking about Anthony Hewitt. Again, you're talking about a phenom. You're talking about a guy that went in the 1st round of the draft out of high school. I've said repeatedly that I'm talking about your normal, mortal, good high school baseball player. Talent like Anthony Hewitt or Madison Bumgarner or Justin Jackson or people like that will be seen no matter what, obviously. I'm talking about you average Joe's who are on an even playing field with the other kids talent wise and are trying to do whatever they can do to have themselves be the one that's seen, rather than another guy who's about equal to them in ability

Again, you talk about the scouting director you know. You're talking about Major League scouts. I'm talking about college recruiting. Two very different animals. The pro guys haven't fallen for the trap of IMPACT, but the college guys certainly have. It's nice that you were really dramatic and talked about how the scout would be fired immediately for not paying attention to high school games, but your whole paragraph is off topic because again you resorted to pro scouts.

To give an example of how little spring performance matters. Garrison Lassiter was not an all-conference selection his sophomore year in a 2A conference, but he signed with UNC shortly after. Why? Because he's on the Dirtbags, one of the premier showcase teams in America. If he can rip the ball for the Dirtbags against elite pitching, the UNC coaches don't care what he does against 2A high school pitching. The competition he faces on the weekends in showcase ball is much more comparable to what he will see in college, and thus is a better indicator of his talent.

 

No, no, no. The things you say are the product of some random person on the internet with no authority or experience to speak of. Meanwhile I'm someone who knows Hall of Fame high school baseball coaches, long-time Legion coaches, D1-A college coaches, MLB associate scouts, MLB area scouts, and one MLB scouting director. I tried to make it repeatedly clear that I am NOT just giving my opinion. What I am doing is providing you with information that you do not have because you have never had access to the kind of people I speak with regularly. But my attempts at courteously enlightening you have been futile, as you insist on repeating your same misguided notions again and again.

Yes, that's exactly it. You don't know what you're talking about but that hasn't stopped you from saying what you think coaches and scouts do. Meanwhile I, someone who actually knows such people, am saying what they really do.

A typical scout sees far, FAR more high school games in one year than he does showcases, not in the least part because they're much more common.

It's beyond obvious at this point that you either work for a showcase team or were one of those parents that paid a bunch of money believing it would make their kid a star. There is just no other rational explanation for your dogged insistence on things that aren't true. You're basically working as a promoter for them on here.

A point you're still wrong about. It's clear from your words that you don't actually know any scouts, but that hasn't stopped you from making declarative statements about what the things they do. It is flat out wrong to say that it's "way easier" to get seen at a showcase than a high school game because:

A) at a showcase each athlete is competing against tons of other athletes for a scout's attention, and
B) a scout sees far more high school games during the course of the year than he does showcases.

Please stop talking. Your ignorance is like nails on a chalkboard to anyone who actually knows what they're talking about. It is clear that you have absolutely zero knowledge of what scouting entails, because you keep describing it in the most absurd, incorrect terms. Scouting is not some haphazard, serendipitous job where guys randomly go around looking at baseball games and occasionally notice a player. It doesn't work that way at showcases, Legion games, or high school games. Scouts go to look at a player they already know about, although that sometimes means that they'll see someone else who catches their interest while they're at the game. They hear about players through their network of contacts, which are always extensive.

One of my friends has a rolodex thicker than Wilt Chamberlain's date book. It's really stunning how many people these guys form connections with, and those people are the ones who feed them this information about which players to take a look at. If a player is worth watching, they know about it. They don't need someone going around promoting a player and telling them how good he is, and they absolutely do not trust promoters the way that they trust their contacts.

I'm convinced that if I keep reading your posts, at some point my head is going to explode. If you really believe that going 4-4 in a showcase will suddenly make colleges or pro teams think that you're a good player, there is no point in discussing any topic with you ever again. Scouts and coaches look for talent and skills, not one good day's worth of performance. Even an average player will have days where he puts up stats, even against good competition, so none of them make decisions based on one day.

You should be. He is someone who was awful on the showcase circuit but got drafted in the first round anyway. What does that tell you? It should clue you in that your obsession with showcases is unwarranted and that scouts don't put anywhere near the stock in them that you think they do.

If kids don't have superior talent or skills, then they aren't getting D1-A offers regardless of who they play for or where. You obviously want to pretend that you can be average and somehow still get an offer just by wearing a certain name on your jersey when that's ridiculous. Colleges don't care what team you're playing for and they definitely aren't going to take someone just because they're familiar with a particular team's name.

I know D1-A college coaches too, Peter Gammons. I'm not close friends with any like I am a couple of pro scouts, but it's sort of a "friend of a friend" situation where the people I know are good friends with them.

The fact that you think Coach Fox or Coach Holbrook care that someone played for the Dirtbags is hilarious. Absolutely hilarious. I don't know those two personally, but I'm sure they respect Coach Mills. That said, the idea that anyone is going to get a scholarship offer just because they played for the Dirtbags is something that even Mills would laugh at. Guys get offers because of their talent and skills, things Lassiter showed at a very early age in any jersey he wore (he was playing Legion ball while in middle school). And fyi, Lassiter had an outstanding high school career at West Forsyth, so I don't know why you're pretending that he stunk up the joint. He didn't get selected for the Junior USA trials because he played for the Dirtbags, and he didn't get an offer from Carolina because he played for the Dirtbags. He was one of the highest ranked players in this region, so for you to pretend like he needed the Dirtbags for exposure is just dishonest.

Oh good lord, now you're actually comparing showcases to the ACC? You really don't care about embarrassing yourself, do you? I mean, wow. I can't decide whether to beg you to stop to save whatever reputation you might have left or urge you to keep going just for the unintentional hilarity.

Look, here's the point. You have repeatedly said things about high school baseball and scouting that are flat out untrue. It is not my opinion that your statements were untrue, it is a fact that they're untrue because I have actually been around enough people and situations to know that. Again, you obviously have a lot invested in showcase baseball and need to believe that it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. Quite honestly, I'm perfectly fine letting you believe whatever crazy things you want to. Anyone who worries about correcting every crazy notion in someone else's head will never have time for anything else. But what does bother me is when you try to pass off your ignorance to other people. That's not ok, so I'm pleading with you to keep your beliefs to yourself. As long as you aren't posting false information in a public forum, we can agree to disagree.

 

Well, I've learned a bunch reading this thread.

Not to support either Collin or pastime, because I know I don't know the subject, we had what I found to be an odd situation recently.

One of our closest friends and a very close friend of my son, recently got a major D1 offer. I mean major. The school never saw him play in HS and only saw him play over two showcase weekends (although I bet they had someone they trust watch him in HS). One weekend by what Collin might call associate scouts and the other by the actual school coaches. I think everyone was surprised that the offer came out of nowhere although it is very well deserved. This kid will get many more. he had not heard anything from the school until the last 3 weeks and then, BOOM. Big offer. We're all very excited for him.