You Make the Call

There is a runner on 3rd, batter hits a shot down third. The 3rd baseman lays out and gloves the ball cleanly, gets up and makes an attempt to get the runner at 3rd. Misses him- throws cleanly to 1st which runner beats out- Question Hit or Fielders Choice?

 

Great Jr Legion Game in Tarboro last night

I saw the play and it is a hit all the way mostly on the fact that the fielder laid out to make the stop.

 

Judgement call for the scorer

If in the judgement of the scorer, since the throw was clean, if the runner would have been thrown out at first if that was the fielder's initial reaction, then it's a FC.

If in the judgement of the scorer, since the throw was clean, if the runner would have been safe even if the fielder had not given any thought or effort toward third base, then it's a hit.

In other words, with a clean throw to first and he is barely safe, then FC due to the time wasted considering a play at third.....a clean throw to first and the runner was well past the bag, then score it a single.

Just because the fielder laid out, doesn't automatically make it a hit in my book. What if he laid out and got the runner at third, then it's a FC. What if the second baseman lays out on a shot to second and has plenty of time to get up and still throw the runner out at first, but opts for second and fails to get the runner. That's not a hit just because he laid out to catch it. Of course, we all differ in our judgements and that is why there is so much difference in how one person scores a game and how another scores it....and why HS statistics are so suspect in many cases. Most good scorers can't consistently accurately determine what runs are earned runs or not, escpecially during big innings with a several errors in the mix.

 

You are correct you did see the play.

Im leaning to FC- because the guy fielded the ball cleanly and had time to get the runner at 1st- now had he went to first and the runner beat it out- I give a hit. I believe if he had chosen to go to first-he would of gotten the out which he had time to do so.

 

Stretchlon, lots of good hits taken away by outstanding defensive plays all the time, thats why hitters gladly take the cheap ones that occasionally fall.

Can't go along with judgement, (because even without seeing the play) any fielder is losing valuable seconds anytime he looks at another runner. And your saying this fielder actually made an "attempt" on another runner,,,,,, sorry this has fielder's choice all over it.

 

If it was a bang-bang play, I would agree, but if the runner would have been safe regardless of the look-over, HIT!...it is a judgement call and according to RULE 14.7a---if you are the scorekeeper and it's your son that was the batted player, the batter is awarded a hit if he is called safe at the base the play was made.---it's a HS rule that is carried forward to summer ball.

 

Here's a good one

I saw this on in the Jack Sink Tournament. Batter hits the ball in the air to right field and the right fielder moves in and dives for the ball, landing short of the ball by about five feet. The ball skips by his diving attempt without contacting his glove and dies in the grass about halfway between the fielder and the outfield wall. Runner winds up on third with no play at the base.

How do you score it?

Some (if not many) call it a triple. I call it a single and a two-base error as the fielder played a soft single into three bases as he misjudged his ability to catch it. The correct play was to easily play it on the hop and hold the runner at first. Did the runner deserve a triple on such a weakly struck ball? Did the pitcher deserve it being scored a triple when he handcuffed the batter and got the hitter to put less than his best stroke on the ball? Does the fielder desrve an error for his bad judgement, even though he was giving an all-out effort for his team?

I'm a firm believer that the ball not touching his glove is meaningless in this situation.

BTW: Official scorer at the tournament scored it as a single....

 

I agree in theory, but it is a triple.


The official scorer shall not score mental mistakes or misjudgments as errors unless a specific rule prescribes otherwise

(a) Subject to the provisions of Rules 10.06(b) and 10.06(c), it is a one-base hit if the batter stops at first base; it is a two-base hit if the batter stops at second base; it a three-base hit if the batter stops at third base; and it is a home run if the batter touches all bases and scores.

 

It's unfair to penalize hustle so you should never call it a single and a two-base error for a kid who is diving to try to make a play. He needs to be taught a little better in judgement, but sometimes you just get a misread on the ball. It happens to every outfielder. Stinks for the pitcher in that case, but that's baseball and these things tend to balance out in the end.

And I wish people would stop talking about "it touched his glove." THERE IS NO MENTION OF A ERROR WHEN A BALL TOUCHES A GLOVE IN THE RULEBOOK!!! There are tons of examples where the player touches the ball and it's still a hit and there are also great examples of a player not touching the ball and the ruling is an error. It's the thing that parents complain about when arguing a scoring decision with me most. And the look I get when I say "the player does not have to touch the ball for it to be an error," I get incredulous looks. At the college level, I have to explain that not everyone hits .450 at this level because we expect guys to make plays at this level. When you have high school students scoring games (and I know a few that couldn't pass a rules test if one was administered), you will tend to see these kind of mistakes that you should not see at the college level (though we're not perfect either, but generally more reliable, if I may brag on my fellow scorers).

 

LowandSlow is correct in his thinking, in that this specific ball could've simply ended up as a single if the outfielder had played it conservatively; however, he took the chance, and it is a triple in the books, no physical error either. Of course there is such a thing called "mental errors",,, and a fielder using poor judgement, bad angle or what they do with the ball is no different than a poor baserunning mistake. So many little mental things do so often determine the outcome of ballgames all the time, thats why baseball is such a great game and not a game that just an "athlete" can go out and master just by showing up.

And btw Braves, I agree the part of the rule that reads "if it is YOUR son" does cloudy many decisions in scorekeeping...