Should There Be Refunds on Cancelled Tournaments?

Let's face it, what started out years ago, as a way for teams to raise money to cover their own travel related expenses, has turned into nothing more than a "money making" operation for certain individuals. There should be a defined refund policy listed for each tournament, then if the teams still choose to pay the fee and enter the tournament, they did it being completely informed. The big problem, is these tournaments generate a huge amount of profit for the individuals that put them on, that they are reluctant to refund any money. As for the pay that umpire receive, these same individuals refuse to pay the officials when a game becomes a forfeit. When the fees start getting above $400 for any tournament, this is when it is overpriced. But like one of the statements that was made, "The teams and parents pull the wagon" Let's get back to what this is supposed to be about, THE GIRLS playing the sport.

 

Our organization runs a big 80+ team tournament every year. We have a return policy that is stated on the website and in the packet sent to each entrant. This saves a lot of hassle and discontent.

We do a pre-sale on the Tournament T-Shirts. The money generated from that has usually covered the T-Shirts AND the 1st day concessions. That is a big load off of our minds.

Last year, we had to issue some refunds due to having the latter half of Saturday being washed-out. Some teams did not get their required amount of games and would not due to the restructuring of the brackets (dropping the loser's bracket). The coaches of those teams were very understanding and knew exactly the amount of refund they would be receiving.

Part of our tournament receipts go to the Stephanie Spielman Cancer Research. Some of the affected teams requested that their refund be donated to the Stephanie Spielman Cancer Research. Very nice gesture.

2 years ago, our NSA State tournament was a total debacle. Rain all weekend, some teams played, some did not. No refunds. No explanations. No nothing. Travel teams then boycotted just about anything NSA. Last year's NSA State tournament had and average of 8 teams per age division. NSA finally got the message. NSA is done in our state.

Communication is the key. If it is not posted in the tournament hand-out, then ask for it. If they cannot produce one, or if it is not to your liking, then do not send them your money.

 

As a TD from Ohio, yes we have refund policies in our tournament sites. If you have a tournament in Ohio, you better have one. For any tournament director to shun the people and teams who come to their tournaments... pay good money on motels and entry fees to be there.... is an absolute shame. Shame on them.

Stringrays event in Ohio is the best tournament there is in Ohio for college coaches, well ran tournament and I personally believe it is the best tournament in the State of Ohio... none better and I run tournaments in Ohio for myself and other organizations (Lady Lasers Akadema 18u event).

The amount of people the Stingray organization has working their events (coaches, parents, players) is absolutely tremendous. If something like rain came through and the tournament was shortened.. it won't be from the lack of effort from this organization.

Reminds me of Santa's elves running around the fields....lol

And as was said, NSA is done in Ohio. Two years with no refunds after States on the 4th of July rains.. having four people trying to get up 17 diamonds.... teams are done with them.

 

Please allow the Fishedit.

No doubt a refund policy should be in place for all tourneys.

As for how much a team should recoup, well as much as possible for sure!

My "devils advocate" approach was only to point out that regardless of how many games are rained out or actually played in any tourney, there still exist cost that someone has to pay.

Many times I've heard of tourneys not played at Walnut Creek because the parking and concession profit goes to the city park.

Or, how about playing a tourney in Cary where you pay for the fields, rain or not.

What about the umpires? Should they get some stipend for being "on call"?
I would certainly hope so, otherwise the umps wouldn't work such a tourney.

And how about a TD? Unless that person is moneybags and is giving his all for free, when should he/she get a piece of the pie?

Just asking.

I love TBR.

Marlin

 

I want to start by saying that many of you on this board bash people that you know nothing about.
I am a NC NSA director and we work very hard to do the best for the girls and the teams. We are on call 24/7 and take many calls and emails from many different people. When the season is over and no games are being played we are still working on the next year’s schedule. We are visiting parks, hotels and etc. trying to give your daughters and opportunity to play a sport they love. Which allows them to learn many aspects of life such as leadership, communication, responsibility, and etc. skills.
But no one wants to look at the good, just quick to point out the bad or something that they don't like. Look at it like this if these opportunities was not available where would they be and what would they be doing.
We at NC NSA have a refund policy and it is posted on our website, but the parks have the final say on if you are allowed to play on their fields or during the rainy weather, not the director. So please make sure you have your facts straight before you slander our program.
As any director knows when rain comes you hands become tied, it don't matter if you are NSA , ASA, AAU. You can't control Gods work. You try to make to the best of a bad situation the best you can.

 

Up this way... for a four game guarentee ( like a three pool play and single eliminations) the cost averages $350.00. Usually there is a no refund policy of $50.00 . The fifty dollars covers a show up fee for the umpires (usually gas money and not one game pay). Some are even 75.00 dollars with the situlation if diamond dry was used to try to get it up.

Gate fees usually cover that cost (diamond dry) and a $50.00 non refundable fee.

As for ballpark costs.... here in Ohio I usually get the Convention and Visitor's Bureau to pay for the diamond costs as I am bringing business into their community.

Now, many state association state tournaments sign contracts with motels for rebates. Here in Ohio it is usually $6 to $10 per room sold and if you sell 20 rooms... you get one free comp room. Usually for out of town umpires. Now take 168 team in Cincinnati, Ohio for the state tournament for three days and see where the money goes for the tournament TD (usually state director). In his pocket.

Here in Ohio two and three years ago, the state tournament for one association was a joke. Teams were forced to play in the state tournament to be able to honor their qualifying berth won in an earlier qualifier.
With the World Series in Ohio... well guess what everybody was forced to do? Play 168 teams in one location (17 fields) and with only three grounds crew to do the work. Too many chief and not enough Indians syndrome it seems to me. Teams got one 50 minute game all weekend.. games were decided by how many players reached third.. if the game was tied.

Three nights at a motel (Thursday, Friday, Saturday) and one game and no refund. Afte two years straight of that crapola.... that association in Ohio went by the wayside.

It was so bad, there was a total of eight tournament by that association in 2009 because the teams in Ohio wouldn't play that National organization tournaments anymore. So in 2010, they moved the World Series back to Ohio to try to get teams back... but no team organization in Ohio ( and 95% percent of the tournaments in Ohio is team ran for raising money for their organizations to play all year).. want to be attached to that association.

I think that is what another was looking at.

If a tournament director has a good following on his event, a City Convention and Visitors Bureau will PAY for you to bring your event to their town. Imagine what a 40 team tournament does for a city economically. That is why you as a TD go to these CVB's and ask for money to bring your event there. You try to cover your ballfield rental fees. CVB's run on motel tax monies collected in a city or county. That is how they are funded. But, they base a compensation on how many out of town teams are coming (which means butts in a motel bed.. to be frank)

Now, that is how I do it... but, I don't take money rebates from the teams. I make the motels lower their prices for the teams. But, I do take the free comp room for every 20 sold.. for my umpires from out of town as I only use college/high school umpires in my events.

I was a state director here in Ohio and a regional director over 10 states for one of the associations. I know how the game works. I despise it.

And I hate giving out dust collectors (trophies). I'd rather give out hoodies, jackets, uniforms, etc....

 

And if any TD is giving the concession stand business to the city at a city owned park... he shouldn't be paying field rental fees.

If he is, he needs to find another business to get into. Just my opinion.

Come see us in Savannah over Christmas break. Off seson and rates are low in Savannah. Oceanfront home rental out on Tybee Beach looks like the thing to do personally.

I know the one we got (me and my umpires) was very cheap. Came to about 73 dollars a person for the week.

I think I need to come to North Carolina and run a tournament.... for the teams. You'd like my tournaments.. I hate dust collectors...

Have a great evening and good luck to the teams in the 2010 season. Softball is fun.. it doesn't have to be about money.

 

Just wondering how you from OHIO would come down to NC and make things better.

Fishman

 

Fishman, I think you've been part of the conversations we've had about how much money tournaments bring to the local economy.

I'm wondering (doubting) if the TD are taking the actions Ohio dude mentions. He definitely sounds like he knows what he's talking about. Maybe someone (like the Cardinals, or TFS, etc.) would do well to at least consult him. What's there to lose. Sounds like a lot to gain. And especially considering the number of facilities available in the area--Raleigh, Cary, Greensboro, etc. Sounds like it's time to "deal" instead of accepting less than we could have for the girls.