rise ball or drop ball?

Rise ball or drop ball?

Each one can be very effective if the pitcher has perfected them. But they don't become deadly until they are used in conjunction with one another. The rise sets up the drop and the drop sets up the rise. Fortunately for high school batters, not many pitchers they face are true masters of both. The ability to throw these pitches with perfection was one of the secrets of Chelsea Leonard's amazing high school career. Perfection requires the right speed, the right spin, the right location, and putting it all together at the right time regardless of the pressure of the game situation.

 

Hmmm . . .

Having both a great rise and great drop certainly makes a pitcher tough. However, I really don't feel that one 'sets up' the other.

Leonard was one of the best high school pitchers I ever saw. My daughter had her on a team she coached at a UNC camp when Chelsea was a rising Soph and raved about her. Don't assume, however, everything she throws will translate to the collegiate level. That said, the fact that Chelsea has so many tools for her collegiate pitching coach to work with will go a long way to assuring her some level of success.

 

...I'm not arguing that a rise sets up a drop or vice versa. That discussion is for the pitching gurus.


Check this out, ....when Chelsea pitched for the Lady Lightning as a wet behind the ears 13-14 yr oldish player, she had, HANDS DOWN, the best offspeed pitch imaginable. Trust me, my team won a few and lost a few more over the years to John C. and his VERY talented group of kids. Point is, Chelsea never blasted the ball past hitters because she did not need to.
Now she's rocking a bigtime fastball, high 60s to 70ish, and still has that offspeed pitch to boot!

I agree with BetterB and Duke that lots of the records and stats in HS or TB might not translate into the college game, but in Chelseas case it will.

Merry Christmas,
Fishman

 

a good rise ball to an aggresive hitter will get them swinging. a good rop ball to an agressive hitter will be a ball.

a lot of coaches get their pitchers in trouble by attacking the zone and not the batter. if you attack the zone on a good hitter then you will either get rocked or give them a free pass.

if you attack the hitter then you can usually get them out with either pitch. both are good pitches when thrown to the right hitter. IMO and its just mine...a good CU will get most of your hitters out when its used to set up another pitch. my DD will hit a CU 90% of the time but follow a good CU that falls off the table with a hard drop ball and she is subject to chase it or ground out.

 

For a number of years, college coaches were all about the rise ball. That now seems to be changing. Now they want pitchers who can throw the drop as well as the rise. There is increasing focus on the drop ball and using both with strategy. A good rise ball is a killer pitch. But hitters are getting better. Hang a rise ball in the zone and it can get hit into the tall timbers. Games are won and lost on rise balls that don't rise. On the other hand, a drop ball that misses is more likely to still be a ground ball, or just a ball.

College pitching staffs usually have more than one good pitcher. Colleges (if they can recruit them) will staff with a good curve/screw pitcher and a good rise/drop pitcher. Of course individual colleges pitchers are not limited to one set or the other. They can mix them all up, but they do tend to excel more with one or the other and will lean on one as their "go-to" pitch (notwithstanding the superstars).

There is no reason for any pitcher to not have a change-up. For youngsters learning to pitch, it should be mastered before any breaking pitches. After the fast ball, the change-up should be the very next pitch learned. A young pitcher can throw a change-up and get people out long before she's really capable of effective breaking pitches. Breaking pitches require the ability to spin the ball on top of adequate forward speed. That ability doesn't come until the arm muscles and coordination have matured.

 

Excellent thread and posts to go with it.

Still I'll lay this on ya again and again.......a pitcher can throw rise drop, inside, outside, up and in down and in, etc. and be very succesful as long as these pitches, any and all of them don't stack up one after another at basically the same speed.
Batting is taking your turn and let the pitcher dictate what you're gonna swing at.

Hitting is dictating what the pitcher has to throw to get you out.

Merry Christmas

Fishman

 

Very well said Betterbatter, you summed up I believe where the game is now. Hitters have gotten much better the last 5-10 years and more disciplined if they are to be successful at higher levels of play. Pitchers I believe will be more consistently successful if they can be effective down in the zone, and as you stated the ability to change speeds effectively cannot be overstated, as a key to a successful pitcher.

 

Just an observation....

Maybe someone has already said this but I'll say it again. As a catcher, it seems to me that just about every pitcher has a drop ball but only about 70% of them have a rise ball. And of that 70%, only a select number can use it effectively.
In my opinion, the drop ball is more widely used because 1) it's easier to learn and 2) it is more effective at the high school level. The drop ball, even when not thrown perfectly, will most of the time cause ground ball outs or little blooper hits. Both of which can be defended against. The rise ball, when thrown perfect, can get you strike outs but when it isn't thrown correctly (which is the case most of the time) it will get you homeruns. And those cannot be defended against.

 

.....Hey JMLindsay, I enjoy reading your posts and perspective. Keep it up.
question for you here, first off take yourself out of this equation, ....now, winning run is on 3B with less than two outs. How do feel about a pitcher throwing a dropball that might hit the dirt and skip past even the best catchers, to result in losing the game?

I realize that this hypothetical ? would have a few other coaching moves, like loading the bases, moving the infield and outfield in etc.

With respect and thanks and merry Christmas to you and your family,

FishPal