Unethical coaches, penality or not???

I hate these type coaches, but there is no way to enforce any kind of ban. First of all you would be getting rid of a lot of coaches that "supposedly" do alot for the softball community and many would never stand for that. Also how would you prove it? The coach is already unethical so he is going to lie and no doubt would ask the player to lie too. I have seen coaches that are well known to do it and look you in the face and complain about others doing it. I think they think it is ok if they do it (they think they have some sort of God given right to do it) but not anyone else. I think you should tar and feather them and drag them through Cherry Park but realistically you can't stop it. A roster is the biggest joke in softball. It means nothing. All the official forms like a release mean nothing. Take ASA for example the team pays $15 per player to add a player so she can get her "picture ID". If a player jumps ship midstream she can do so without a release, they do it everyday. She plays with the second team on the first team's $15. You may think this is not a big amount of money but then the first team has to pay another $15 to replace the player and many times the player leaves with the teams uniform and equipment which is difficult if not impossible to get back adding more cost to the team. Again, no need for all these "official" forms because they are not utilized. A roster is nothing more than an information sheet with the players contact information so other unethical coaches can contact her.

 

Ban for Life?

I agree that it is definately an admonishable, despicable action to actively recruit players from some other team. However,
Perhaps your poll should have included some other form of sanction.
Ban for Life? That is impossible to enforce for all the reasons stated - regardless if you may feel it fits. Don't you think it's a bit dramatic?
How about sanctions in the form of being barred from certain high profile tournaments? Becoming ineligible for Nationals / States in ASA, NSA, Etc.? THAT might be somewhat enforceable - if you could receive the cooperation from those governing bodies.
The problems that would be encountered is that there are tournament directors that are putting on tournaments for $$$$ (there have been several threads about that here recently) - not for entirely "purist" motives. To not include a team or possibly entire organization would cost them $$$ with ramifications reaching how far into the future.
Also, who would be in charge of such a thing? Who would investigate the allegation to ensure that "softball gossip" "softball rumours" were not the prevalent evidence against the individual? Perhaps, ASA and the others could develop an investigating "arm" such as the NCAA has? That would be great! By the time they reached a conclusion, the player could be done with school (HS & College) and married with several children! (not a reference to any current events )

Yeah, yeah, we all know what we know about "so and so" - but prove it? My thought is that this conversation was begun with a particular individual or individuals in mind - no one that i would know of however, the voracity of some of the posts suggests a long time, deep seated resentment that therapy or the possible institution of a 12 step program of some sort might help to alleviate. LOL.

My solution, although a bit more "grass roots" is probably the best way to deal with it.
Solution: Parents, if a coach comes up and is trying to get your kid (who is "in season" and committed to another team) on their team - do your homework, call around, ask about him, the organization, etc.. chances are that if he is trying to "recruit" your kid AWAY from somewhere, he doesn't walk on the highest Moral Ground.
Hmmmmmm, If you let your kid play for him, then, you get what you deserve and become just like him. Mercenary. Nice, huh? Remember the Golden Rule (with a little Karma thrown in)

the other possible solution is to tell the coach of the team you are on and let him go and beat the heck out of the other guy (gal? - oops) - THAT may not be legal or right however it would supply good family entertainment for the rest of us! I for one, never tire of heated arguments and wholesale violence on the softball fields - (please excuse the yankee sarcasm)

Bottom line is that while you or your child may be flattered that someone feels that they are good enough to compromise their Coaching integrity - it is up to you, the parent, to set the example of how you want your familly's values to be determined.

On another note - it was stated by "Tot" that for 15.00 you can add a player in ASA - true but not (not trying to be contentious, just stating the FACTS). Yes... it costs 15.00 however, if they are on another roster - they will not be released from that roster without the consent of the Coach and the Player / Parents given directly to the local ASA authorities. Also, if they have played in an ASA Qualifier - they simply CANNOT be release or added to another roster for the season - with or without any permission. They (he) does and EXCELLENT job of that - and should be applauded for his diligence (I have a few years of FIRST HAND KNOWLEDGE OF THIS - as i handled the ASA rosters for our organization). Perhaps ASA's diligence and integrity why ASA has such high regard compared to some other organizations. (there is another wonderful thread idea..)

Now, in the instance that the parent initiated the conversation with the coach - and the coach was accused of recruiting... we have the basis for even another thread!!! (Fish, put me on the payroll - ha ha)

Peace and good tidings.

GO HEELS!

 

if they are on another roster - they will not be released from that roster without the consent of the Coach and the Player / Parents given directly to the local ASA authorities.

I agree about playing in the ASA qualifer that they are strict on that, but they are NOT strict on releases signed by coaches and parents otherwise and that is a FACT. Even if they are not released they play anyway and receive no penalties from ASA, I've seen it more than once. Hence, release form is not worth the paper it is written on. Good concept though and those rules make the rule book look good just not reality. Parents and players that make commitments to a team then jump ship midstream are more unethical than the coaches who lure them. Would you have a ban on them too?

 

showcase?

Absolutely agreed! Ban the players? Ban the Umps! Ban the whole dang thing!!! LOL!
It is true that players will play with other teams without releases but only in lower level showcases (fill in's) when their teams are not playing that weekend - it doesn't happen in significant tournaments where the rosters are very much scrutinized.
Ya know, there are exceptions to everything. " Where there is a will - there's a way" - but all in all I think it's a pretty good system. JMHO

 

What would you call a "lower level showcase"? Oh so you are saying that the rules only apply to the high level tournaments that are out of state. Most teams do not go to Florida, California, and Colorado. You make it sound like these teams are not important enough for the rules to apply. Since you have first hand knowledge, are rosters not scrutinized here in North Carolina? The answer to that would be NO. Thought I would answer that for you since you seem to be talking out both sides of your mouth. First you say that no way do players play without releases and then you say well sure they do. You did bring up a point that I forgot and that is that there are also players that will not leave a team permanently but will play with the team that is playing in the most appealing tournament to her on that particular weekend. This player does not get released, but you think that is ok? So you are saying that it is ok to not go by the rules in the case of teams that are not of the "calibur" that go on the National tour. If it is a rule then ENFORCE IT TO EVERYONE not just the teams that you pick and choose to apply it to. Everyone has to buy the insurance, get background checked and ACE certified. If you really think about it the "National Tour" teams probably wouldn't exist if not for everyone else because if the rules were applied to everyone they may not have enough players to play. Now I'm not talking about all of them but it certainly does apply to some of them. Just food for thought.

 

Unethical?? Why just single out coaches who recruit from other teams? Who is going to be the judge and jury on this kangaroo court? What about the family that is trying to get more playing time on their existing team and "says" that another coach approached them to join this new team... only it wasnt true. There are plenty of "unethical" actions that coaches AND players take, so why did this particular action become so despicable? Seems that there are other things that are done that are unethical and affect safety that are far more important.

While I can get that this seems to be a problem for some but there really are no rules against it(Right?). This needs to be addressed at the association level with rules that discourage the behavior.

 

+1

 

Proverbial Nail on head.....

In actuality, there is very little one can do. The only things that are broken are ethics and commitment....and those are shared equally between families and organizations. But certainly no law is broken. You can't shame the shameless....and the one's that do this justify they are doing so in a competitive market.

You would think that by word of mouth that a family would know it's "Buyer Beware"...but new families enter the TB world each year and are susceptible to listening to "offers." In no way am I condemning anyone needing a different environment, but contacting a current player in season is unscrupulous, lazy and cast a black cloud on the one doing so.

Can this be corrected? ..No. Can this be legislated through a governing body?...No. Will this continue and will be discussed again in 5 years?...Yes. 10 years?..Yes. It's not going away. If anything, with the advent of more teams, it will only get worse.