You make the call...never seen this one

This happened to us in a tournament a couple of weeks ago. We were batting and having quite a bit of success. We may have batted around in this particular inning. We used a courtesy runner for our catcher. It was all legit and this was our last out at the time she was used. Everybody else was in the game or had played...no subs left. In the end we had 2 outs, runners on second and third, and the courtesy runner was on third. The problem was she was also due up after the current batter. The batter at the plate ended up walking and now we had bases loaded, but the courtesy runner on third was next up. What is the ruling? I will tell you the umps would not let us replace the courtesy runner with another runner at that point. I have never seen this happen before and I do not believe the umpires had either. I will tell you how they ruled it later in this thread.

 

If I ran the zoo I would have allowed the original runner to replace the courtesy runner. If not, I would have called an out because the listed batter wasn't available to bat.

 

I would have called an out because the listed batter wasn't available to bat. Thats my call !!!!!

 

That is what they called. They called her out for the third out and the next batter in the line up led off the next inning at the plate. I should have gotten her in a run down between 3rd and home when the batter at the plate walked. She would have either been out and led off the next inning or she would have been safe and batted right then...I must be getting old because I did not think that way until it was too late.

 

Dang ,I was going to guess. With the way some umps are (not all),I was going with a ghost runner.

 

You didn't say what org this tournament was under. I'm not sure that matters, though.

The ASA rules don't account for a "last out" courtesy runner, because the rules for championship play require that the courtesy runner be a legal sub, i.e. not in the game, so this can't happen under those rules. When the TD decides to allow you to use last out as a CR, then he should provide the rule for this condition.

 

FYI.... I think this is from USA softball

google search and found this.... I'm guessing that this would apply to fastpitch also......

Here is the ruling from 2008 Senior Softball USA Rule Book.

READ Section 3.5................................

Senior Softball League
Playing Rules
(Revised March 2, 2010)

The official rules to be used by this League are the ones laid out specifically for “Senior Slow Pitch” in the 2008 Senior Softball USA Rule Book combined with the following “Playing Rules”. When a conflict exists between the two, the League rules take precedence and can only be amended per Article V paragraph A Item #7 or Article VIII paragraph F of the local league constitution and by-Laws.


3. Courtesy Runners
3.1. A courtesy runner may be used for a Player from home plate or any base at any time.
3.2. The runner must be a player in the offensive lineup.
3.3. A Player may be a courtesy runner only once per inning and will be called out after that.
3.4. A courtesy runner may not replace a courtesy runner, except in case of an injury.
3.5. A courtesy runner caught on base when it is his turn at bat will be called out as a runner and must come to bat.
3.6. A player becomes a courtesy runner when the umpire calls “Play Ball” or puts the ball back in play. You cannot change to another designated runner after that.
3.7. When a courtesy runner is used from home plate and the batter touches 1st base or interferes with the play after he hits the ball, he will be called out

Your courtesy runner should have been the lead off batter the next inning

 

Stanley, What you have reproduced here appear to be the "league rules" for a particular league meant to be combined with the "Senior Softball-USA" organization rule book. The most notable feature of the Senior Softball-USA Rulebook is that all the rules appear to be in Large Type. I'm not sure if this is because of the age of the participants or in consideration of the umpire's eyesight.

I'm not even sure why they needed league rules, when "Senior Softball-USA" own rule book says about the same thing as this.

In any case, "Senior Softball-USA" is not ASA, NSA, ISA, USSSA, NCAA, WFC and has no bearing on any game played under their sanction. This is one example of how it could be called (which would have resulted in a better outcome for the OP).

NSA specifically allows: "The pitcher or catcher may return to run for themselves if the courtesy runner is due up to bat."

If this was an ISA game, then the umpire got it exactly right:

WFC, USSSA : don't address this issue at all.

ASA uses similar wording to what your found, but for Masters and Seniors only

However, this rule doesn't apply to fast pitch (for the reasons I stated in my first post). An enterprising young umpire might decide to apply it, but Lord only knows what would happen under protest.

I don't think NCAA allows Courtesy Runners at all.

 

I don't think NCAA allows Courtesy Runners at all.[/quote]

Never..............

 

.......correct, no courtesy runners in NCAA.

Every player change is considered a substitution and when the original player re-enters on defense then the pinch runner is now burned from the game.

One cool thing is the EP.

Take for example you have an awesome hitter who is also the starting pitcher. You can have your "next pitcher", you know, the kid who you would put into the game if the starter gets in trouble, and still let your big hitter stay in the game on offense.

Fishman

...oh, BTW, ChaCha is right....he's gettin' old.