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UNC

Discussion in 'Showcase Baseball' started by Ballfan, Nov 10, 2010.

  1. karlrocket

    karlrocket Full Access Member

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    There is a mentality out there, (in some cases), to grab a recruit before the school has an opportunity to do their homework. They offer early and then hope the player improves over the the next year or so. Last summer I was at a summer showcase tournament watching a game, and a Division 1 Head Coach showed up with one of his assistants (not UNC), to watch a player that they had already offered a scholarship to, but the coach stood there and admitted to us that he had never seen the recruit play before. He was joking about it and made a point of saying it was all on the assistant if it didn't work out. I just thought this coach would be in the loop a little better than it was appearing.
     
  2. Falcon#3

    Falcon#3 Full Access Member

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    Parents and players: do your homework, that is why it is called the recruiting process. Take your time, do it right. There are so many good baseball schools, especially here in NC and SC. If the player would be happy going to the particular school (minus baseball) then I would say go for it. Until the NCAA steps in, I don't think anything will change. Maybe the "draft straight out of high school" needs to be reviewed. There is so much a player can benefit from in 3-4 years of the college experience. They are still young and have a lot to learn - physically, mentally, socially and intellectually. The hefty paychecks do speak volumes and at 18 are hard to turn down.
     
  3. Prepster

    Prepster Full Access Member

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    There is a layer of Division I college baseball where the coaches' employment depends not only upon winning games, but also upon winning enough games to make them consistently capable of reaching at least the Super-Regional level in the NCAA post-season tournament.

    Please pause for a moment and consider the consequences for the coaching staff if they fail to achieve that.

    Baseball is the ONLY major sport whose best players may choose to go pro out of high school (including the aforementioned basketball). As a result, the coaches at the programs referred to above are consistently competing directly against professional baseball for the same players.

    To be consistently capable of reaching at least the Super-Regional level in the NCAA post-season tournament, a team must consistently recruit the best players it possibly can. However, a substantial percentage of the best players choose to become professional players after their senior year in high school.

    Some of those players who choose to become professionals out of high school believe and say that they intend to go to college first; but, when the signing bonus is made available to them, they change their minds. It happens quite a bit.

    The best players who forgo professional baseball out of high school tend to go to the best Division I programs. Virtually all of them hope to be drafted highly enough once they turn 21 to be drafted again while they're still in college. For many of them, that happens; but, some percentage of those either aren't offered enough bonus or they aren't drafted once they turn 21. As a result, every class at the best programs has a high percentage of players whose future is highly uncertain once they turn 21.

    Meanwhile factors such as academic difficulty, injury, illness, the departure of coaching staffs, and inability to compete at the highest level take their toll on every class.

    Because of all of this, the uncertainty around the composition of the roster is constantly high, and the coaching staffs at the best programs are expected to identify and recruit the most talented players they can. If they fail to do so on a consistent basis, they lose their jobs.

    I, for one, can't stand much of the structure I've just described; and, I'd change it if I could. However, the men who have accepted coaching positions at the best college programs have no choice but to do the best they can with the hand they're dealt.

    The "best they can" includes an ongoing responsibility to do as well as they can to predict their needs adequately and recruit accordingly. I know a number of these coaches quite well (not only at UNC), and have discussed this issue at length with them. I've come away from those conversations convinced that they're sensitive to the negative consequences of "over recruiting" and do their best to avoid it. However, every single one of them will tell you that, try as hard as they can, it's exceedingly difficult to make the numbers come out as desired every year.

    The alternative for these coaches is to coach at programs where the best players are not consistently sought. The athletic directors at those schools expect their baseball coaches to win more games than they lose; but, there is not an expectation that they routinely compete at the highest levels. Coaches may tell recruits that they're aiming at Omaha, but it simply isn't the ongoing expectation.

    At those programs, classes are recruited with much greater certainty. Players there tend to stay for four seasons because they aren't drafted or they aren't drafted highly enough to warrant election to go pro early. This creates a recruiting environment that is extraordinarily different from that at the top levels.

    In favor of changing the current mess that is college recruiting at the highest levels? I'm with you 100%.

    Sympathetic in the meantime with the horrendous challenge that is recruiting at those levels? Absolutely.

    Until the competition between professional baseball and the best college baseball is alleviated, the coaches involved at the epicenter will have to deal with this challenge...as well as they can.


    (The estimate in an earlier post of the percentage of major DI players who either don't arrive out of high school or don't remain in the program due to factors such as the 21-year-old draft, academic difficulty, injury, etc. is grossly underestimated based upon my direct observations. Nothing like 8 players a year are being asked to transfer at the top programs.)
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2010
  4. infieldfly

    infieldfly Full Access Member

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    verbal commitments?

    When a young man and a college make a "verbal commitment", is there any agreement on either side about ANYTHING? For example, the % scholarship?
    Surely a "commitment" has some substance, or not? Can someone verbalize the essence of a 'verbal" commitment on the part of a player and the school?
    I just need to know as a single mother.

    Wish I knew all the rules,

    Thanks,
     
  5. Braves

    Braves Watauga Pioneers #6

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    I believe we are fortunate that nearly all commitments in baseball are honored--by both sides. But is it binding? Nope...it's not worth the paper it's not printed on. Quite frankly, a case in NC was argued in Superior Court about the legality of a NLI. The attorney for the defense made a plausible argument that it enters and defies the law of underage contracts. All contracts must be approved by a judge to protect the children---to exclude a scrupulous parent's signature (think entertainment contracts.) The case did not come to court because the college gave the release of the student-athlete --something they would not do prior to the suit.

    Currently, a National Letter of Intent is the only binding contract between the school and the student..and in baseball it's for one year.

    I'm sure, as time goes by, we will find many twists in all aspects of recruiting in baseball. I believe showcase baseball will be in NCAA cross-hairs in the future. Stay tuned........

    Wow...did I get off topic? :yamyam:
     
  6. Braves

    Braves Watauga Pioneers #6

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    Outstanding post, Prepster! I love how you are always able to put things in the proper perspective.
     
  7. karlrocket

    karlrocket Full Access Member

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    UNC is an easy school to study. You can find out more about the Tar Heels than any other baseball school in the state. Various websites pretty much analyze everything that goes on year-round.(Inside Carolina, for instance) Its been said here, in other threads, that if you are recruited by UNC, you better prepare yourself to compete for a roster spot every year. From the moment you walk on campus in the fall, you're battling for a roster spot. Out of the 45 freshmen on UNC's spring rosters between 2006 & 2009, 19 were gone after 2 years. (42%) About a dozen of those were one & done. Some of those players transferred elsewhere & are still playing, and some are still attending classes and trying to graduate in Chapel Hill. Out of last years class of 13 freshmen, it appears that about 11 are still playing, And its been documented that the Heels have 28 more recruits lined up for the next 2 years. Alot of competition for those roster spots. Alot of what happens to those freshmen & sophomore players is what has been discussed above, and the coaches have to navigate thru all that the best they can.
     
  8. Prepster

    Prepster Full Access Member

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    Agreed, karlrocket.

    At any top-level program, the highest concentration of tough competitors you'll likely face are in your own clubhouse. As a result, the ongoing competition for playing time is fierce.

    My son had a saying as a pitcher: "You have to make them give you the ball." In other words, you have to consistently show the coaches that you're capable of contributing at a high level day in and day out. If you do, you'll "get the ball" and, if a position player, "get the innings."

    A starting outfielder from my son's era (one who was known for saying exactly what he thought) once said to me, "You know, in high school, I thought I was The Stud. As soon as I started playing with these guys, though, I realized that everyone in the clubhouse was The Stud." (Actually, his language was a bit saltier, but I think you'll get the point.)

    Virtually all players and their families have had the environment described to them; but, it's another thing to experience it. Most adjust to it and thrive in it. A small number never do.

    It's because of this that I routinely tell the parents of recruited players that it would be impossible to exxaggerate the magnitude of the step from scholastic baseball to Division I. It takes players who are not only capable of performing at a high level, but who also enjoy competing against the best...regardless of which clubhouse produces the competition.
     
  9. HomeRunHomer

    HomeRunHomer Full Access Member

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    Right On!

    You guys are pretty much spot on in these conversations. By the time you get settled in on campus....coach has already recruited 2 more at your position coming in next year! :invasion:
     
  10. pirates05

    pirates05 baseball-lifer

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    All of these are great replys. I think that the blame is sometimes put on the wrong people. If you committ to a school that has 51 or so players on the fall roster and 17 or 18 coming in with your class, with the idea of atleast that many coming in the class after you, who fault is it when you committ to that school. I think another problem is we look at the sports programs as Student/Athletes, when in truth the D1 programs are a business. Some big business some smaller business but business still. We don't see ABC, ESPN, CBS televising the Math exams, or Business classes lectures. Do the coaches make more money than the professors, School Presidents(yes). Do big boosters give big money to losing programs(no). When my son committed before his sophmore year the coach told us that this would changed the recruiting game. Just like AAU basketball changed the game, Showcase baseball has change the College baseball landscape. Coaches may not like it, but they know they have to participate with it if they want to be sucessful. Due to the limited amount of scholarships and other strangeling NCAA baseball rules coaches know they have to recruit a large amount of kids in order to be sucessful. They win they keep their jobs, lose and they don't. Infield Fly, a verbal is just that. It is non-binding and most players and parents know how much baseball money they will be getting when they make that committment. Things do happen and sometimes both or one party decommitt but usually that doesnt happen. Don't blame the schools because you don't have to attend that school. When you make your decision i hope that it works out. If we could tell the future our decisions would be much easier.
     

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