ASA Rules on Elite Genovese/Pack Collusion...

Soooooo Many Factors

I think there are way too many ways to look at this. Was it dirty pool, or extremely creative?

Playing against the Elite, in my eyes, is not the forfeiture of Team 1 to Team in the Semi's (Coach, you keep intermingling championship with semi's with winners - at this point it is only the winner's bracket in the semi final round). Since the rules do not clearly disallow this, it was actually quite creative of the team with the berth already in hand to drop down into the loser's bracket.

However, it goes from creative to rather corrupt, when in the Championship rounds Team 2 forfeits twice to Team 1. From the creative standpoint, if Genovese came back up out of the loser's bracket, as they did, the teams should have played it out. The coaches on Team 2 should have wanted their girls to TRY to win the berth on their own in the championship round by being named State Champions after the win.

The lesson the girls on both these teams learned are, to say the least, sad. Team 1 learned how to manipulate a system to gain a State Championship, which should - in my eyes - be tainted gains as they had won ON THEIR OWN, a qualifier previously. I, personally, would not permit my daughter to take credit for being part of the State Championship team as it would be a lie. The game to declare this title was never played, thus the Championship is false gain.

For the girls on Team 2,the lesson is even worse: Manipulate the system to get what you want when it cannot be proven that you did earn it or WOULD HAVE earned it through your own abilities. No one can know if Game 1 had played out and Team 2 had gone into the losers bracket if they would have made it back out, thus it can not be presumed that they would have earned a national berth through the natural progression of the tournament. It is a very tainted honor to accept the berth, and my daughter would NOT participate in the nationals if this was how it was earned as there is NO PROOF that they SHOULD be at the Nationals.

I can also say, my daughter has been part of two State Championship teams and she can say with pride that both of those Championships were won through blood, sweat, tears, a chipped tooth, blistering sun burn and pure determination. Those are memories in which she can take pride!

Had what transpired been the case and she been a part of either team, she would not have been afterwards. This is not the life lessons I want my daughter to learn.

However, let me also say, for Team 3 to be awarded the berth would IMO be equally wrong as there is no proof THEY would have made it out of the loser's bracket to beat either team twice. Ball is a crap shoot, let's face it. But I applaud the coaches from Sandhills for fighting the good fight for their girls - THAT IS a valuable life lesson.

So creative decision to drop down or in violation of ASA rules? The lines are muddy there in terms of rules - not in terms of morals & life lessons - and it needs to be addressed in the future so that a true champion can be determined and so that the berth can be naturally awarded based upon the progression of the game.

 

If this correctly describes what happened, teams 1 and 2 should be banned from the rest of the season for unsportsmanlike conduct.... including the players.

 

Just curious on this... who did the Slammers lose to in order to be sent to the loser's bracket (Pack, Genovese, other) and if the Slammers had not lost, how could/would it have affected the outcome/berth?

 

First for clarity I am not a coach of the Slammers. They did lose the first game to Elite Pack. 5-2. Had they won this game then this plan would not have played out. This should have be no factor in this case however.

ex. Last year South Carolina lost the first baseball game then won sixth straight to win it all.

The Slammers did not claim they would have won the rematch but it would have likely been a great game. There was also no guarantee that if the two Elite teams would have played that Genovese would have won.

The point is that nobody will ever know and that the berth was not earned on the field in an ethical way.

The only remedy available to the slammers was to ask for a berth and that would have not been earned either.

 

My first and last post on this.

There was no forfeit at the end. A weather delay and both teams being qualified made the decision easy not to wait out the weather. That is my first and last comment about SC state tournament. Like anything else there are two sides. Its already gone on for weeks with one side doing all the talking. That is the way it will stay.

Elite Genovese had players driving to CO that night. Nobody was sitting through any delay regardless of time.

 

Would love to hear from the other side on this. Maybe Pack or Genovese could explain themselves and why this was okay?

The 18U finished their tournament as they started back within 30 minutes of the weather delay.

Some Elite parents may have been confused as they did say the younger forfeited back. That didn't matter as far as the case as the damage had been done.

The reason for weeks, is it took ASA that long to respond and in all reality there was really no hearing as it all fell back on the tournment director.

An apology from SCASA would help but don't think it will happen.

Genovese and Pack don't seem bothered either but their response would be welcomed.

 

Ok I lied!

Should've added this to the last post. Those guys will talk with you in person. One can't post here per NCAA rules and Tony hasn't been on a message board in his life. The answers wont come here. Now I am done.

 

My kids are grown and no longer playing softball, but I still enjoy going and watching. I was at the SC ASA State tournament on that Sunday and here is what I saw.

The Slammers had their chance to beat both Elite teams but DID NOT..Now because they have been to the Nationals the last few years they feel "entitled" so they want ASA to give them a berth that they didnt earn or deserve.

I was very dissapointed by the actions of the Elite teams by not playing the Winners bracket finals game, but the fact is the Slammers had their chance AGAIN even after that to still pull it out, but just as before they lost plain and simple and now their coaching staff is crying to anyone with an email. Back in my day when you got your a** whipped by a better team you just took it and went back to working harder, not crying on message boards about it.

 

Coach Hawkins runs a top notch program at USC-Upstate, he is a great coach and was a great mentor for my daughter. If anything the Elite has all of this success because of the great players and behavior of the past and present players of USC-Upstate. His players carry one of the highest team GPA,s in the NCAA.

 

In response to Dizzlefit I am neither a coach nor team manager for the Slammers.

For anyone that does not think the following is important your post is perfectly a good question as win at all costs is all that matters:

ASA STRATEGIC PLAN SUMMARY
VISION ASA will be the standard of excellence in softball
MISSION The Amateur Softball Association is the National Governing Body
of softball in the United States.
We develop, administer and promote the sport of softball to
provide opportunities for participation and the best possible
experience for those involved.
VALUES
■ Teamwork
■ Fair Play
■ Common Good
■ Promotion and Education
■ Sportsmanship & Civility

For the 90% percent of all the e-mails and posts we have received the above is important.

What is more important than us getting a berth is the fact that at the November meeting or before a proposal by the leadership of ASA is going to be presented to amend the code to insure this travesty and admitted black eye doesn't happen again.

If people like you want to slam us for whining that is fine because all of the hard work by the Slammers manager and others has brought action from ASA and even though we didn't get an "unearned berth" neither will any other team like the Elite Pack get one either for collusion. Sadly Pack's team is very good and would have been favored against us if it came down that way. All we wanted was a chance to earn it on the field.