Rec Ball -- Not Up To Par !!!

This thread is not to run down the program , but to get an overview from others how it could be improved !!! I was over near a ball field the other day so I decided to watch some of the baseball & softball practices. Folks I have to be honest the majority of the coaches did not know how to instruct their players, even though they had stations set up on some of the practices, I noticed time after time that the young kids were kind of on their own.........swings looked incorrect,throws also were not corrected, so it appeared that the kids thought in their minds that they were hitting and throwing correctly..........now this is fine if this is all you want, but if we want to send better talent to our high schools than we that are capable of teaching correctly should step in and volunteer our time..We complain about the talent in our high schools in general, I know there is the exception to the rule, not going to list high schools ,because I might leave somebody out, but what I saw the other day was pitiful, but again I'm looking through eyes that have seen great ball players !!!

-- Guru

 

My dd's 5th grade yr and last yr of rball. We had 22 players on one team , our coach was asked to split the girls and make 2 teams but she would not here of it, she said she could handle it, well you know what kind of mess that was-trying to just play 22 is one thing but trying to coach all of them and try and teach them something was another story. I was watching practice one day and they were having a srimmage, and by the way it was one of the first practices, one of the girls hit a ball and it was a pop up between 3rd and short and NO ONE moved to try and catch the ball, the ball just falls in the dirt in the infield between the 3rd baseman and the ss and our coach never said a word, never showed anybody what they should have done, nothing. I understand that we need to get girls interested at a younger age and start developing their skills but county rec ball here dosen't offer much to get this done. By the way qualified knoledgeable coaches were not voted in, it was given to someone that had never coached anything and never played one second of softball !!!

I'm editing this because of being stupid. I was thinking back to her 5th grade yr in rec ball and though nothing much was taught and it was mass confusion getting all those girls playing time, THEY ALL HAD A GREAT TIME. Sometimes I think some of us forget that fun is suppose to be what it's all about.

 

Rec ball

I watched a couple of rec games last night. It was good to see the participation and the number of parents at the games. But it was very obvious they need more instruction. I kind of hate to say it because at least they had teams out there playing. And they were having fun. But they deserve more.

In general, it's not the coaches' fault. They do the best they can I'm sure. And they have to be commended for being out there for the kids.

I believe what would be the best approach is to work with the department in charge of the programs and find a way to teach the coaches first. They need to be taught separate from the kids to begin with. In most cases the instruction should be the same instruction, more or less, that the kids will receive. Then, after working with the coaches, you could work with the coaches and kids together. That way everyone is on the same track.

I'm sure everyone on this board is aware that there is no better feeling than being a part of helping a kid achieve. And the opportunities are everywhere in rec ball.

I believe if the rec coaches understand we're trying to help--not judge or one-up them--that they'll be more receptive to our offers. But, as I've said, it needs to come from the top--the people in charge of the programs.

 

Rec

Back in late 90's and early in 2000 I coached in rec league with two other gentleman that were good softball minds and did it for the kids. We went to rec board and ask could we put an all-star team together at first of year, this team would practice once a week but would be divided among the rec teams to keep the league competitive. The all-star team for lack of better word would come together and practice once a week to prepare for summer travel tournaments so we could compete!
The Board would not allow it at all, said they did not need this type of arrangement as their teams were good enough already. Three older groups had already left Mint Hill, Slammers (later Curve), Vipers, and Blaze so we were trying not to do that to league.
Well in fall of 2000 Lady Blues were formed just to assist our daughters to become better HS players. Several kids followed and the whole rec league suffered as other travel teams developed. My point, some of us tried to remain a part of rec league and compete on higher level in summer but were not taken seriously and actually were not given a chance to explain our position. We never envision or planned for the Blues to become a way for kids to get college exposure or scholarships.
The Blues have offered clinics to various rec leagues at a discounted rate just to cover some cost and have offered to help with no real success. Not sure where Mint Hill rec league stands at this point.

 

Interesting Discussion

This is a very interesting discussion on a board that is greatly involved with high level travel ball.

My opinions are based on my 5 years of coaching experience with a daughter in a rec baseball league (extremely competitive and successful league) and coaching a daughter in a 8U rec softball league (non - competitive program). I also have a little travel experience at the younger age groups - both baseball and softball.

Here are the things I find interesting:
1.) The majority on this board are critical of younger kids playing "travel" ball" but confirm that the rec leagues stink
2.) The majority on this board want a competitive travel team and recruit the most talented kids available.
3.) They player recruitment at the 12U (and most 10 U teams) and older level comes from girls with travel experience.
4.) How many 10U travel players play rec ball? My guess - 5%.
5.) How many times have you seen this on TBR:
Softball tryouts for 12U travel team - only players with rec experience eligible. Minimal Commitment level required. $185 cost per season. Never - the 10U and 12U travel programs want talented, experienced and committed players.

Some folks on here make fun of the 8U and 10U travel programs but want experienced travel players on their 12U team. Interesting!

The obvious reasons the rec leagues stink is the fact that the quality players (and therefore, the coaches) all feel inclined to play travel ball. You can take any demographic segment and remove the most talented, the most committed players along with the best coaching and you won't have a quality program left behind.

What came first - the chicken or the egg? What came first, the girls movement to travel ball, therefore, diluting the rec programs of players and coaches or was it the demise of the quality rec program and therefore, the quality players and coaches left to travel?

As a whole (and there are individual cases) the good 8U players move up early to 10U or play 8U travel ball. The talented 10U move to travel ball very quickly. As a result, the rec leagues are left with the following:

1.) Parents of players that have a rec mentatility (and there is nothing wrong with it in a rec league). Kids are at practice as long as there is no dance practice, piano lessons, etc... Parents that make thier kids leave a 6:00 game early for bedtime.
2.) Kids showing up with no mouthpieces, gloves, etc...
3.) Coaches that make a limited commitment, with limited knowledge and limited experience.
4.) A few talented players throwing the ball to a second baseman that cannot catch. A few talented players being stranded on base while the bottom of the lineup strikes out - every time. A few talented players getting walked and stealing their way home on passed balls.

These leagues are fun for the girls - lots of fun. Any girl that wants to play softball should have a place to play, regardless of their talent level, parent commitment, etc... However, as long as the talented players and coaches abandon the rec programs for travel ball the quality of play in the rec leagues will be very bad.

Folks, we are the problem when it comes to the demise of the rec leagues.

Here is how it can be changed:

1.) 8U, 10U and 12U - play travel but require the participants to also play rec. This will bring back the talented players and coaches. Rec leagues games would only play on weeknights. Radical - yes but it works for AAU basketball, whose season is primarily in the summer. It also works for rec baseball.

2.) 8U and 10U tournaments that only consist of rec based teams. It can be a rec All Star team but you cannot enter a team in the tournament without showing your rec season schedule and roster. Again, it is now working for rec baseball.

3.) Make older travel players volunteer their time with rec programs as coaches and mentors. How many girls want to become a teacher and coach but have no experience working with youth players? I would love assistance from a high school player and 16U or 18U travel player that wants to become a coach someday. This allows the 8U player to have a role model and the lessons to the high schooler are also invaluable.

3.) Figure out a way where ASA, NSA and USSSA support rec programs and do not view them as a competitor. How many times have you seen a representative from these organizations assisting at a rec program? How many tournaments are scheduled around the rec schedule - one day Sunday tournaments? Late Saturday starts?

I am not blaming anyone - we are all absorbed in our own daily lives, our own goals and the goals of our children along with our own time management and financial agendas. Once my oldest daughter moves out of baseball and my youngest daughter gets tired of throwing with someone who can't catch, I will be devoted to travel ball also.

But - these are the reasons and several solutions - crazy and impossible as they may be. It'll never happen - and I understand why and I am part of the rec problem!

 

If you think rec is bad you should see my daughters middle school coach. Her school coach last year moved to the high school and the coach they have now is awful. I dont know how long I can sit and watch this season. They should be one of the top schools in the county but will probably end up last.

 

I understand what you're saying. You're right that it will never happen the way you suggest.

What I'm wanting for the rec leagues that I'm aware of is for them to allow skilled coaches and players to work with the coaches and players they now have in the rec leagues. The more the skilled coaches/players worked with the rec program the better they would get.

I know when the players get better they will move to other levels and that is not a bad thing--it's actually a good thing. But the skill level would improve with time and the players leaving the rec program would be leaving at a higher and higher level.

I've coached rec and I'm aware it can be frustrating but it can be better than what it is. I see the potential at the rec games. The only real problem I see is getting them the help they need. The rec programs are always looking for volunteer coaches. They take the coaches they take usually because they're the only ones who volunteered.

I'll bet there is a good TB coach out there who could volunteer in a rec program and end up being a coach of coaches at that level. All they need is the time to do it. They could definitely make a big difference.

 

to a great extent the same concepts exist today in many of our HS programs.... props to those who dont succumb to the dumbing down philosophy.

 

Good Valid Points !!!

Well thought,and definitely an individual of experience....I just thought it was sad to see the coaching quality of the rec leagues deteriorate throughout the years, and it very possible that the travel ball has depleted the talent pool, and available coaches that know the game !!

guru

 

MSA

MSA (Matthews Softball Association) has a great rec program for girls and only girls softball.
They do have the girls come from summer TB to be split up on the Rec teams and are always looking for ways to help there coaches and players improve.
For instance, the MSA 10u travel team went back and are playing in the 12u rec teams and most if not all 12u teams have some of the TB players.
Most of the MSA rec coaches are open to help. I offered to do a short clinic on basic pitching and just about every coach turned up.
I wish I could say the same for the other surrounding Rec leagues. Like Rodney, Years ago another Butler coach and I offered to coach a Mint Hill TB team with the girls playing rec also and were flat turned down for what reason I am not sure.
To be honest At times I think TB at some levels today is what Rec ball was years ago. The shear numbers of teams automatically dilute the pool of players, I am not complaining just stating what I think is happening, I think the old timers on here (Cheeze, Rodney, Paul and others) would agree if they thing back to when the Rec all star teams played summer tournaments, they were pretty darn tough games in both the slowpitch days and when Fastpitch started.