Pitch Counts

I'm not exactly sure on what is reasonable for pitch counts this time of year as I'm sure there are many variables to consider. In this situation, a relative young pitcher was called up to play Varsity in a non-conference game (sophomore) and throws a near complete game. This young man performed quite well IMO. My only concern is that his pitch count was @ 115 pitches. Please let me know your thoughts/concerns? Am I being over cautious for the good of this young man's arm or is the norm? I'm just a casual observer.

 

I don't think you are being overly cautious at all. It depends on a lot of things...how many curveballs, history of how many pitches he is capable of pitching in previous games, his arm strength, his overall fitness, etc...but I personally think 115 should be more on the maximum end. In this case, he was a junior varsity pitcher called up to pitch in a varsity game, I highly doubt he would tell anyone if his arm was hurting.

 

Thats about 2 innings too many...and the potential affect of too many pitches is often a cummulative thing that may not be noticed for months. Early in the season, a young pitcher brought up from JV ? Personally I'd keep around 80, max...and that's IF he doesn't have many big pitch innings ( 25 or more ).

 

There's the answer

 

Kids can throw 12-15 pitches an inning all day in warm weather. It's those big innings that you have to be careful of.

 

Too many variables to be able to give a definitive answer.

First question for me would be how was he throwing. Not so much balls and strikes, but was delivery smooth and was he keeping the ball down. If his pitches start creeping up in the zone, that's a sure sign he is beginning to labor. You see that and it's time to pat him on the butt and bring somebody else in.

Too much attention on the pitch count can lead to not really evaluating what a pitcher is doing. Some pitchers are like wine, they get better with time (and pitches).

Higher pitch counts (wthin reason of course) aren't the problem... not being in condition to throw that many pitches is where the trouble begins. The more you throw, the longer you can go.

 

My 200 yen on pitch counts. Im converting currency.

I can't say what the answer is just my thoughts.

I really take alot of consideration into pitch counts/throw counts. I count number of throws from catcher back to pitcher. Catcher throws to a base. Pick throws. Each player really. I like to know where each arm is. I have them rate their arms between innings on a scale of 1-10. I learned this from somewhere else and it seems to work well.

IMO no matter how well a game a player is pitching, keeping them out their beyond a fixed count might hurt the teams chances. Anything can and usually does happen in a matter of a few at bats. That 1-0 lead a pitcher is holding onto in the 5th inning is not such a big enough margin to keep him out there if he is nearing the top of his pitch count. Even if the lead is bigger I still think that adherence to a set pitch count is important as an element in winning as a team. I like to use pitchers as a group or as some will say "pitching as a platoon."

Im not trying to take a complete game away from a pitcher but I am saying a team win is more important than a stat for any single player.

With this being said I did have a pitcher pitch 6 great innings in a championship game. He rated his arm for the last inning as a 7 which indicated that he could finish the game. But sticking to the aforementioned mind set we pulled him and put in a "closer."

Lost the game 5-4. Problem was the closer had pitched beyond his pitch count in a game a few days earlier and wasn't ready to close.

The pitcher that we pulled was right at the limit of his pitch count.

Its a double edge I think. But I still stand firm to a pitch count. If the pitcher can pitch the game within the pitch count then he can get the complete game stat. A less than 90 pitch count complete game(7 innings) is an indication of a complete game.

Some pitchers and coachers will allow high pitch counts for various reasons. To preserve their staff. Some so that the pitcher can get this stat.

Those high pitch count innings KILL teams. Usually happens with bad pitches and equally bad defense. A bad pitch here or there. An error here or there.

Its those high pitch innings that usually lead to pitchers and coaches not adhering to max pitch count limitations. High pich count innings KILL non-pro teams. IMO.

I find it interesting when Im watching a PRO game on TV and the announcers talk about a pitcher nearing his max pitch count. They almost instinctively know and talk about, over the air, as if it is normal that a coach would be considering taking that pitcher out of the game. The cameras panning to the dugout phone with the coach or an assistant making the call to the bullpen. Of course they have the luxury of having a dozen pitchers to call on as we don't BUT they adhere to the idea of pitch counts as an effective team winning strategy.

Thats all the Yen I have left.

 

I'm not a coach but personally I feel 115 is too many. Based on the fact the kid is young and it is so early in the year I tend to lean toward that 80 pitch range. I don't feel a HS player should ever be over 100 pitches. I realize there are some other variables, kids size, experience and such but I just don't see the reason to throw so many. Those pitches late in a game wear on a kid over a period of time.

 

We had a very interesting discussion on this before. I suggest one takes the time to read the responses on the following thread as well.

http://www.thisboardrocks.com/forum/showthread.php?t=124503&highlight=Pitch+counts

 

IMO 115 pitches this early in the year is too much BUT each individual is different. If the ball player has been on a strict throwing program prior to the season starting, then most likely he can go longer than most. Personally I think that is the key. It's not what you did in the game, it is how you prepared yourself before hand. Lets face it, ALL not most, HS pitchers are not going to tell their coach that they are tired or hurt. They want to stay on the mound as long as they can.