2007 Commitments

wes mcbride may be a very good college pitcher and I hope it happens for him. But, I think this is a good time to bring up the velocity factor and how it is abused and misreprersented by good people who mean no harm.

I have seen Mcbride pitch three times and every game a college coach had a gun on him, including his last outing this weekend at Belmont Abbey.

He hit the highest I have ever seen him hit which was 89 on the Jugs gun, (the jugs gun is often laughed at by pro scouts for showing too high a velo as compared to a stalker gun which is a bit slower and considered the most accurate). Every other pitch he threw, around 80 for three innings, was 83-86. By his last few batters he was as low as 82-83 top velocity.

Someone who should be in the direct know wrote that he was a low 90's pitcher and consistently pitches in the high 80's. well the truth is that he flat out doesn't and someone is either sitting around guessing, which is ridiculous since hitters can make a pitcher look really fast because the hitters are really slow, or just making up numbers to seem impressive.

Young mcbride just wants to pitch, win , and earn a scholarship. Instead adults who know better are throwing out velocity numbers that would rival 90% of major leaguers.

My second pet peeve is when a high school pitcher is throwing 81-83 and the report is he has the "potential" to throw high 80's next spring. That kid needs to explain to the rest of the baseball world what his program was and make himself a million dollars as a coach. you can not gain these types of velocity in a couple of relatively inactive months. To even suggest it, you lose all credibility.

Let's all stop acting crazy and be honest. 83 is pretty hard. consistent low 90's is a first rounder. and there is a huge difference between your average speed and your top bolt. If your player is 5'11 and 130 lbs that doesn't make him long and lanky, that means he is undersized and needs to gain alot of weight.

Just a few thoughts that I think the baseball world should be on the same page about. I don't mean to hurt feelings or step on toes. I have just gotten to the point when I hear a kid throws 90 we are talking about the same thing.

 

There may be some undercurrents between posters that I am not aware of but I'm sure Catamount didn't mean any harm with his post about Wes. Sounded like he was only congratulating a player. Most importantly, Coach Gaski knows what Wes can do by now.

That being said and Wes McBride's situation notwithstanding, I think a good point has been made about the importance of accuracy and clarity when giving reports about players. And you definitely can be accurate saying a pitcher has hit 90 but it gives people the wrong impression if he only hits it once a game or once a month. It's true that just about everyone is numbers crazy when it comes to velocity. Most college coaches and pro scouts are as well. There are levels, based on velocity, that serve as a defacto grading system.

While college coaches and scouts hate misinformation because it makes them work harder (that's why most of them don't take second-hand info to heart anyway), the most harm from honest mistakes or just plain bad reporting could be done to the player himself. If a pitcher reportedly throws low 90s, a college coach sees that and then sees the pitcher top at 85 on a couple of occasions, then "something must be wrong with the pitcher."

It's done all the time, by players and coaches. Stretched a 7.03-60 time to 6.95 or a 2.1 pop time to 1.98. It's important to everyone, especially the players themselves that we know what we are talking about or at least pay more attention to detail before we throw out numbers.

 

Thank you caroliner and as I said I certainly don't mean to judge any of the individuals involved in this one instance. They are a part of a bad cycle that I'm sure goes on all over the country.

Baseball can be such a subjective sport that what you base a player's ability on can even be hard to describe. But the raw data like a 60 time, a pitcher's velocity, or a catcher's pop time isn't subjective and can't lie. Only people make mistakes whether on purpose or not. And it seems to be only in baseball.

Imagine if people went around saying the top basketball prospect in NC had a 70 inch vertical leap. That is as absurd as saying a kid throws 92 instead of 86. Yes it is! Or how bout telling our buddies our child made a 1500 on the SAT. IN 99% of the cases that would be a flat out lie. Why do we overembellish or lie or whatever else just because we can get away with it?

 

The radar gun has become the "best friend/worst enemy" for high school pitchers. To quote an asst. coach from NC State, when asked about a pitcher who threw (according to thier JUGS gun) 84-86 over 2 innings, "we don't give scholarships to RH pitchers that don't throw 90+." I wish I had been standing there when he said it and could have asked him what his thoughts were this past season when Robert Woodard whipped them with his nasty 84 mph fastball! I remember the pitcher (Graham?) who led Apex to the state 4A championship a few years back. He never got a serious look from any of the big schools, even though he pitched his team to a state title. He was a mid 80's guy.
The "gun" seems to be replacing the trained eye for many college programs. We've all seen a young coach, or even a college player "runnin' the gun" at showcase tournaments. If I was the head coach and I needed to recruit pitchers for my program I think I would want to see more than a sheet of paper with pitch speeds on it... I'd want to see if the kid could pitch, not just throw hard!
If a hs pitcher gets "gunned" at 90+ once, many doors start to open. He should take every advantage that gives him.

 

Pitcher's are funny creatures though. At different times of the year, their speed is at different levels.

I wish I could remember the name of this one kid. He threw in the summer at 84-85, then in the fall he was at 87-88 and at times 89-90. I remember one scout telling me he clocked him at 82-83. He is now pitching at The Citadel and I heard he is consistently high 80's.

But, I understand what lefty is saying and I agree with him. It hurts a young man to say he throws high 80's- low 90's and the kid is consistently clocked at 84-85. It makes the recruiters believe something is wrong with him, when that is not the case.

In Woodard's case, he actually could top at 90, at times, but he found the art to his pitching was not by overthrowing....but I bet Robert will cut a few loose this year to show the pro guys that he can do that, too.

I'm telling you, the average college pitcher does not throw in the 90's, consistently. Those guys are drafted.

Edit: I remember..the kid's name is Wes Wrenn

 

My son's high school coach will tell you that he is not a pitching coach. Not his forte he will say. He does, however have 30 plus years coaching experience. His comments about velocity relate only to improving what you may have. What he DOES like to relate is stories about facing kids like Daniel Caldwell ,at Wake Forest- Rolesville, who he said rarely ever threw over 80 pitches in complete games, and kept the ball at, or below, the knees. But, to the point about overstating velocity, it is a common practice, and can do nothing to help a player.

 

Velocity

Its alot like weightlifting. You can not rep your max. You do not pitch at your max. A kid will pitch in a certain velocity range. And he will top out or max out at another speed. If a kid can pitch in the 86-88 range he will probaly top out at or max out at 90 or so. I agree that the ability to pitch is much more important than the ability to throw hard. But the ability to throw hard and pitch obviously is better than the ability to pitch and not throw hard. Also you could have made your point without nameing a young man here. Wether we agree or disagree is pointless really. This young man is a fine player and just recieved some great news that he obviously has worked really hard for. I dont think a 17 or 18 year old should have his name put out there like that , you can make your point without pointing someone out. JMHO

 

guess i need to have my gun checked huh???????:banginghe

 

catamount 36,

You are the man. You have been a great coach since I was a little punk. Your record and playoff experience speak for itself. I mean no disrespect to you or anyone in paticular.

 

You just need to upgrade from that $59.99 one you bought at Harbor Freight.