Baserunning Question for you coaches...

Walks

If a kid walks because he just didnt get a pitch to hit , missed a good pitch but then didnt get a pitch to hit , battles the pitcher and fouls off some tough pitches and earns a walk - these are great abs. These types of ab's can actually help a kid gain confidence , get good pitches for the next guy to hit , help your team win etc etc.

But walks where the pitcher gets behind in the count and then gives in and grooves a pitch to a hitter and he takes it and eventually walks do not help the hitter. It always helps the team for guys to reach base. But it helps the team alot more when you make the pitcher pay for falling behind in the count and giving in by throwing a cream puff pitch.

A walks as good as a hit! No sometimes its far from it. If you dont get a good pitch to hit or you earn a walk thats a great ab. But if you watch a couple of grooved pitches and just get lucky that he didnt throw another strike before he walked you thats just being lucky he didnt.

Look to hit , take the walk if they dont let you.

 

I love this discussion. Before I left Watauga, I had a chance to speak to Coach Hardee. I didn't congratulate him on the score. I congratulated him on the approach his hitters took at the plate. They were aggressive from the 1st pitch until the last. They visibly got upset if they walked.

Coach Hardee didn't over-coach. He let his batters swing away and he managed them on the base paths. I loved every minute watching them compete in the batters box.

I know everybody has heard this, but it is true. Hitting is contagious...and the mentality to hitting is just that...mental. Hit a HR ..hit a line drive ..move a runner over ...lay down a bunt......go down swingin' ...looking for a walk..(Come join me on the bench)

 

Coach27 just hit on something else that literally drives me crazy, because it goes against everything I was always taught also,,,,,,, that a 2-0 count, or a 3-1 count is a HITTER's count, with those counts the hitter should be looking for something the pitcher "feels" he "has" to give you, and consequently if you get a grooved FB at 2-0 or 3-1, the hitter should make the pitcher pay.

... and it just drives me crazy when I see a coach give a good hitter the "take sign" in those specific situations...

 

taking called 3rd strike

TheOriole
Senior Member

Also..... completely unacceptable in my honest opinion to take a called third strike!!!!!!!! Run with that one BB guru's


When I played for Tomanchek in the 70s, if we took a called third strike we sat. no questions. Only break you'd get is if you saw coach get out his chair to complain about the call.

 

good stuff so far

While I do agree with a lot that has been said, and many of you have said some really good things in my opinion. I have a somewhat different view or maybe philosophy in regards to some of this. To me, the most important offensive stat is runs scored. Now, obviously, other stats help in this area, high avg., OB%, HBP, BB, etc. For me, not every hitter in my line-up should be hacking away every 2-0, 2-1, 3-1 or 3-0 count that he finds himself in. Now, they should be in a “make the pitcher pay” mentality if the situation calls for them to let it fly. But situations and team needs dictate our approach. Every one has a role in the offensive scheme. The table setters (one hole, two hole, nine hole) guys. They have a job to do, and that is to reach base. The heart of the order (three, four and five) drive guys in. With my six, seven eight hole guys, I’m looking for quality AB’s, which could mean lots of different things (RBI’s, move guys over, HBP, reach base somehow, etc.).

In my opinion, there isn’t a whole lot of difference in hitting in a 2-0 count versus a 2-1 count. More times than not your getting the same pitch either way. Why do I want my nine whole hacking away 2-0? I personally don’t. At times, maybe, but ultimately, his job is to get us back to the top of the line-up. He’s down there for a reason, just like my three hole is where he is for a reason. So if he takes the 2-0 pitch, especially if its late in the game and we need base runners because we are down or in a tight game, I am perfectly ok with that. Matter of fact, I feel like he knows his job/role.

Good hitters get themselves into hitters counts and make the pitcher pay, true. But good hitters also have the ability to hit with two strikes or deep into the count. Good hitters know their strengths, weakness and what their job is.

I would ask this question…..what do you feel is better? Your table setters, taking a good swing and grounding out or lining out on a 2-0 or 2-1 pitch, OR, your table setters working the count to full and seeing more pitches and striking out?

For me, either way they are out. While I hate K’s, in the grand scheme of things, the second scenario can be better. We saw more pitches, pitchers pitch count went up, we showed an understanding of our “job”.

Ultimately, there is a time and place for everything. High averages do not always equate to good hitting. This is the one thing I feel that gets misunderstood with many players, parents and some coaches.

 

JTbaseball,,, I agree with most of what you said, really do,,,, but let me show you why I say "let'em swing at 2-0",,,, keep in mind I'm only talking about a pitch that the pitcher grooves, not a 2-0 curveball in the dirt or a high FB. But lets look at your weak hitter, your #9 man, your table setter or whatever you want to call him,,,,,,,, if that kid isn't one of the better hitters on your team, and he's ever wanting to hit the ball solid, I say, and I was taught many moons ago that you will most likely get one "grooved" to you if you get the count at 2-0 or 3-1. Those are "hitters" counts.

While I agree on your comments about the importance of working counts, all I'm saying is these 2 counts specifically (not 2-1), but 2-0 and 3-1, the pitcher is in a corner where he "MUST" give you something good to hit. Thus hitter's counts, not for looking.

Keep in mind we are talking about high school age hitters,,,,,,,,, now in little league you may give a kid 4 straight take signs because you know walking is his only chance to get on base,,,,,,,,, but high school hitters should be able to do something with a 2-0 pitch, and all we're saying (if I may speak for Coach27) is IF THE PITCHER GROOVES IT... ... and I believe at 2-0 or 3-1 he is more likely to groove it. Just my 2 cents.

 

I agree with you too JT about the role of the hitter and what his strengths, weaknesses are, where you are in the game, the line-up, etc. in determining what he swings at and when he swings.

At the high school level, I also believe another factor is the quality of the pitcher you are facing. We face some pitchers that can throw several pitches for a strike and know that you may only see one good fast ball. Other teams have pitchers that struggle and may not have anything other than a fastball that they are confident that they can throw for a strike.

Ultimately, a player should do what the coach ask and follow his game philosophy, but as for me with a decent hitter...I like to see aggressiveness.

 

I'm sure there are exceptions to everything, but that is why I was specific about the situation.

Quite frankly, unless you have an extremely sophisticated hitter, in the situation I described, anything else, but to allow your hitter to swing away is taking the bat out of his hands and over coaching.

But, that's not what I'm talking about. I'm not speaking about the exceptions. I mentioned something that has always bothered me as a player, as a coach and as an observer. To see a hitter (that clearly has the hit away sign) look at a grooved pitch on a 2-0 count...well, I would question his hitting approach. (something that can be taught)

 

TJ21 – Yeah. Like I said as well. There is a time and place for all of the guys in the line-up to “let it go”. If that time presents itself, and a guy takes a FB down broadway in a hitters count. I’m right there with you……I will not like it one bit.

I will say again though, for certain guys in the line-up, that time and place is limited.

About the fact that we are talking high school hitters and that they should be able to do something with a 2-0 pitch. I would hope so as well. But I’ve seen some swings and bodies lately that would struggle with a 2-0 pitch off of front toss. Not good.

 

no offense...

to anyones ideas here. like i said in my first response, i liked and agreed with most of what people said. Just was adding to the topic.

I agree with you Braves on the 2-0 fastball down the gut, green light is on, i want him to hack, and my guy takes it. "What the #@%&^ are you doing?". Obviously, he has the wrong approach.

Here is another one, that for me, is just as bad and also shows lack of approach......

2-0 fastball that just beats a guy up. How do you get jammed if you are sitting on FB with the purpose of "making him pay"? Can't stand it. "GET THE HEAD OUT, KID!"