Confirm or Unconfirm

One way to "skin the cat":
Fall, lots of long toss - 3 day per week "program", including weighted balls.
Winter, some toss as permitable weather-wise, plus weights and med balls and bands.
January, med ball and "dry" mechanics work in the gym with 60-90 foot throwing (NO max effort) two days a week.
3 weeks prior to season/tryouts (~January 20 to February 14) two nights per week, mechanics/dry work both nights, with one night including throwing to a catcher at 75% FB for 25-30 pitches.
Over the three weeks, increase to 40-45 pitches (not max effort), then 55-60 pitches week before tryouts (90%+ effort). Mix in change up for 10 of 60 pitches, LIMIT only 5 or so curveballs MAX.
First scrimmage week 1, 40 pitch count TOPS (~30 FB, 6-8 changes, maybe 2-3 CB.)
Second scrimmage week 2, ~40 pitch count (do have mid-week intersquad as well) with 8-10 CU and 3-4 CB.
First 2-3 regular season weeks/mid March EVERYBODY is cut off at 85 pitches ABSOLUTE MAX, but it's usually only 2-3 guys that can even have the chance to get there, as those are our starters, and they are often, bigger/stronger/more mature upper-classmen. (OK maybe 87 pitches or so in finishing an inning, but we yellow light in 70s and start getting next arm to the pen. NO WAY to 100.)
By week 4-5 (after all the previous weeks of work, including 2 weeks scrimmages and 3 regular season weeks of game action, and hopefully temps rising) we will aloow a kid past 85, but 100 would be a limit. It depends on the kid, his age/preperation/feel/recovery/etc. - but the red light is 100 though we like below 3 digits best!
From then on, 100 is still the limit. We may have a kid go 110 or something if he "demands" it to "finish what he started", but hey - if he's throwing 20-25 pitches per inning in the first 2-3, he probably doesn't need to continue for reasons other than arm care... like my tummy!

A couple of other things to consider in all this pitch counting:
How many pitches in pen prior to game appearance? Counting?
Considering the between inning warm-ups in counting?
I doubt it is an absolute exact science in many places, but we can all, at the very least, have a plan for the futures of our players.

 

bingo.

 

Yup...ditto

And nothing really shows potential arm injury like slow motion video analysis. (recoil, arm drag, arm "bangs", etc.) Difficult to see with natural eye. Their tightness or soreness will leave clues also.

 

to many

85 max at any time! If you have to throw more than that then developed some more arms! To many Tommy Johns ! Maybe ask a expert what causes that! I see guys throw a 40 pitch bullpen and then throw a 100 pich game? That's like traing for a mile and running 3 miles I have heard the japanese throw as much as 150 pitch bullpens. If you train for 3 miles and only run 1 you should be able to do that easy! Just let the guys have a chance to pitch in college and maybe the pros

 

Thanks Throw 90

I have wanted to reply on more than one occassion to this thread. I've read to many "hero" stories in the paper where a kid does the impossible only to read that they didn't make it to the next level. It's sad to think that the priorities of coaches go against the health of their players.
If my son threw that many pitches than he would be off the team. There's too much to work for at the next level. This is HS Baseball!
I agree with throw 90 that a max of 80 - 85 in the beginning of the season makes sense. Maybe a 100 - 125 during the peak of season. These are young arms with so much potential that we don't want to see them waste away their arms in HS. For those who have shot, give them a shot at the next level.

 

Totally agree with everyone, however at least a 100 sets a limit for those who have total disregard for the health of their players.

 

But you don't agree with Throw 90.
He said 80-85 MAX. PERIOD. No further allowance.
He did not allow for your "100-125 during the peak of season."
Good thing is that I am fairly certain 90's son didn't throw 100 in a game when he was at our place; I think the most was just at/over 90 - although he was extremely resilient and so competetive he would have thrown 150 to win. Also, he was better able than most because of the throwing/training he did to prepare. Either way, he never threw 125, thatI guarantee you!

As for the Tommy John...
Something could be said for the extended length of throwing in games through November with travel/showcase. Add to that the fact that many young pitchers today go to "baseball facilities" twelve months a year, some throwing bullpens/pitching lessons with live throwing EVERY week the whole entire year. Many young arms NEVER REST. So call those "experts" and ask them if MLB guys work lessons/pens in November and December and January and February. The answer will probably be NO. They take time off and rest. And I am more than willing to be corrected. [Here I recommend that you search out that previous Cressey(sp?) article posted on here somewhere. He is credited with training some "elite" pitchers of late, specifically bumping their velocity to 90s I think the article said. That guy said one of his main points of emphasis for those he trains is to play baseball only TWO seasons per calendar year: either spring HS and summer, or summer and fall, or spring HS and fall - NOT February through November. And he is a guy that a bunch of folks on here PRAISED for his linked post just a few weeks ago.]

Night folks...

 

Excellent point. Also one thing that has always been in the back of my mind, is the YOUNG AGE kids are beginning to pitch nowadays. Back in my day (yes Im telling my age a bit here) there was no such thing as travel ball, we started playing little league at 9 years old and after little league was over in the summer, you got ready for football. Nowadays there are 9 year olds pitching the maximum number of innings every weekend, 9-10 months out of a year. By the time many of these 9-year old pitchers get to HS, they have no arm left.

 

+1

 

Dr Andrews

I think Dr Andrews said for a 17 to 18 yr old a max of 89 pitches and that dropped 5 pitches for every 20 pitch inn you have.I got to hear him speak a few yrs ago and he was against the cb till maybe when a player becomes at least a jr although I think it showed on the chart 15. This is all I have to go by but a pretty good source.of course this count could be more now.