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For the Pitching Guru's

Discussion in 'Baseball' started by Braves, Jan 22, 2003.

  1. Braves

    Braves Watauga Pioneers #6

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    Another great site for those who don't get enough info on pitching.

    Check out the forum " Best of.." then go to "Tempo and Nolan Ryan thread" ...sometimes there is just too much information, but the videos of pitching mechanics are awesome. Check out some of the other threads under "Best" as well.



    For the pitching guru's:D
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2003
  2. Applejack

    Applejack ALL WINTER TAN

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    Yo Braves,
    These guys are too intricate. Too specific.
    I learned from Dave Stewart that everyone cannot excel by doing the picture perfect thing.
    Dave told me to try everything that will enhance what got me there but never to forget what got me there.
    That's why he went from almost out of baseball to winning 60 + games in three years.
    But this is some good stuff.
     
  3. Braves

    Braves Watauga Pioneers #6

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    I agree AJ..I'm old school " See it, hit it". But I'm trying to adapt to these new fangled toys. Listen, I was one of the last to tryout that other new toy....the Computer :D

    I'll tell ya something though. There is a thread on there about pitching motion where they show the different mechanics of Steve Avery; from when he first started (successful) and when he finished with the Red Sox ( disastrous )....it was amazing the differences and it was very noticeable why he lost his fastball.

    You wonder if he was presented with this earlier, if it could have saved his career.
     
  4. NCBBallFan

    NCBBallFan Retired ex-moderator

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    I've seen that clip. I believe the biggest part of the change in his mechanics were related to his injuries.

    AJ, I've heard that you don't learn to pitch until you've gone through an injury. Until then your a thrower ususally (I'm thinking of Kerry Wood for example). Like every old axiom, there is a liberal amount of exageration in that one, but how much of a grain of truth is present?
     
  5. Braves

    Braves Watauga Pioneers #6

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    Correct..but it was a rib injury. He recovered, but changed his mechanics during rehab. You would think all the money that is spent by ballclubs that a simple video of before and after would be available...but never underestimate arrogance. I'm not saying that they didn't do that, but it is quite clear that the changes made by Avery, clearly were not in his best interest.
     
  6. NCBBallFan

    NCBBallFan Retired ex-moderator

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    I'm sure your not old enough to remember Dizzy Dean (except from the broadcast booth like I do) but he got hit by a line-drive on the big toe.

    He tried to pitch through the toe injury and blew out his shoulder from the change in mechanics. I don't know if Avery got a secondary injury from his ribs, but it does happen sometimes.
     
  7. Applejack

    Applejack ALL WINTER TAN

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    I've known Greg and Mike Maddux since 1987 when we all played together in Venezuela. Neither of them had great stuff, but they could both pitch.
    Tom Glavine does'nt have great stuff but he can pitch. I have not known either of them to substain serious injury.
    Conversely, I've known John Smoltz since 1985 and he had and has amazing stuff, but since his career threatening injury, he has really learned to pitch. He had an idea before but his mentality has changed tremendously. He now wants to figure out how to get a hitter out rather than how to strike him out.
    Most people say that because it goes back to what I said before about pitchers and throwers.
    Throwers get by mostly on natural talent but when injury comes around and you no longer have that 95 mph fastball or some other devastating pitch then you have to figure out how you are going to get people out.
    Sometimes you run across people that are gifted with natural ability and also know how to pitch, that is when it gets scary.
    JR Richards, Nolan Ryan, Fergie Jenkins and that sort...
     
  8. playme

    playme Full Access Member

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    i am no pitching guru..however, i learned a long time ago and have since passed it on to my son..that you are not a pitcher until you learn to pitch so the ball can be hit...my son gets about 7..8..maybe 9 Ks a game...most outs are recorded by ground ball outs or pop ups...he must have a good defense behind him, otherwise he suffers from errors, and misplayed hits, those that are routine flyball outs that drop for a hit...he gets upset when he "sets up" a hitter and the ump misses the call...for this he is called a #2 pitcher on the staff, because he doesn't try to "blow" the hitter away..he doesn't try for 12, 13, 18 Ks, per game.

    i see young high school sophmore throwers hitting a gun at 87, 88 mph..and icing their shoulders down right afterwards and the next day can hardly lift an arm let alone throw...

    he doesn't ice his arm and plays his secondary position the next day with little or no soreness...so far he has topped out at 87mph...i have stressed mechanics..mechanics...mechanics; you can not take 1 part of the mechanics without all the other parts, the mechanics work in unison...we start each session from the stretch because of less movement...

    i like the Tom House, Nolan Ryan, and Randy Johnson video with a lot of emphasis on a Tom Seaver follow through to take the pressure and strain off the shoulder and elbow...bend that landing kneeeeeeee.....this also helps in being in a good defensive posture at or after delivery...

    again i am no guru or coach or ex-major leaguer trying to make a buck..i am a dad who cares about his son and his son's health...we use tubing for the rotator cuff, a 3lb dumb bell for the arms and shoulders and bunches of running,..sprints, jog, and walking...

    by the way his favorite pitch is a true fork ball..not a splitter...fork ball...i know somebody's gonna rip me over this..
     
  9. Applejack

    Applejack ALL WINTER TAN

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    " see young high school sophmore throwers hitting a gun at 87, 88 mph..and icing their shoulders down right afterwards and the next day can hardly lift an arm let alone throw..." by playme

    Oh playme, this is a must after throwing in a game. please have your son ice after pitching.

    Fork balls in high school?
    Let me put it to you this way, I had a roommate with the Tigers who was a # 1 draft pick out of high school. Reason being, he threw 92 mph out of high school.
    He did'nt develop an off speed pitch and soon found out that the harder you throw, the further it goes.
    Instead of developing a curve ball or change-up he fell in love with the fork ball.
    His fastball went from 92 to 83 in a hurry, and now he cannot straighten his right arm without surgery.
     
  10. MlbScout

    MlbScout Full Access Member

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    Amen AppleJack!!! High school pitchers need to stay away from the forkball and splitter. I have worked with many pitchers over the years and always stress in order......Fastball ( 2 and 4 seamer), fastball location, changeup (with fastball armspeed..the hitter swings at the armspeed). Too many young pitchers get overly concerned about movement on the change. The most important thing is to maintain the fastball arm speed, worry about the movement later. Too many high school pitchers never reach their maximum arm strength ( and velocity ) due to the throwing of too many curve balls. They are great for getting out high school hitters, since most high schoolers can't even hit a bad curve. However, they retard the development of the fastball. Good rule for the fastball......use it, or lose it! I don't like to see pitchers throwing the breaking ball until about age 15. Develop a sound delivery, good arm action, master the fastball (with location), and throw the heck out of the change.
     

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