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Games vs Practice

Discussion in 'Baseball' started by Coach 27, Oct 22, 2007.

  1. EastOfRaleigh

    EastOfRaleigh Full Access Member

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    remember?

    wait now........... and 'fess up.
    some of you guys hollering for change, didn't your sons now going to upper HS years and college ball..... didn't they play weekend travel ball back in the younger days?

    oh yea.
     
  2. Braves

    Braves Watauga Pioneers #6

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    Nope...not between 7-12 yo
     
  3. Plate Dad

    Plate Dad It is what it is!!!!

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    I am saying it worked for my son. He started at a time that travel ball was more like showcase is for HS players today. He has had some great coaches. OAC can verify that. This was a a time before the ten rule rule was used. Games were decided a lot of times on plays on the field. Not home runs by the big kid. He went back to play LL at 12. The level of play was like night and day. He did things as a normal part of the game. Looking for a pass ball to advance, tagging up on a fly ball and be ready to advance. A lot of little things that others were looking at coaches with what do I do now. Was just a very differant time.
     
  4. JTbaseball

    JTbaseball Full Access Member

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    Many of you have talked about how times have changed and the focus of these youth teams has changed from development to winning. I would agree. However, I do also think that there are probably just as many quality coaches at this level teaching the kids sound fundamentals and how the game is supposed to be played as there used to be.

    The major difference is that there are so many more teams now available to parents and thier kids. In turn you have a bunch of new coaches added into the mix who don't have the background, knowledge or awarness of what sound fundamentals are or how the game is to be played. These same coaches do not know how to specifically train or teach these skills age appropriately. To me, this is a problem that stems from what parents hold as valuable or what gives them a sense of worth. Baseball is a game that relates so much to life. And we all can see that kids today are being raised with a much differnet set of values than "back in the day". Trophies, rings, 3 sets of team uniforms, team jakets, bat bags, plane flights or charter bus trips all over the country to play in tournaments, and on and on and on. For many out there, its all about these material things as opposed to character, work ethic, intensity, focus, pride, fundamentals etc. Again, this is a problem.

    Is the answer to take away all these new opportunities? Not at all. I think the answer lies within the HS coaching community. I'm gonna steal some thoughts from one of my friends who I have a tremendous amount of repsect for. We, as HS coaches, have to legitimize ourselves and the game of baseball by becoming more active in our respective communities. If we want to be deemed valuable (as I stated in one of my posts) we have to take charge of our sport and legitmize oursleves as professionals. We need to help shape and mold youth programs and their focus as much as we can and not sit back and watch young talent be misguided and wasted. I really feel its up to us to step out of our small piece of utopia (or own programs) and to take on a larger role.
     
  5. Braves

    Braves Watauga Pioneers #6

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    Hey Coach, I agree with alot of your points but I give me some feedback on this.

    It has been widely documented that there is a significant amount of young kids not playing baseball than ever before. Since this is the case, it would stand to reason that there is not more coaches involved. Plus, since youth baseball has appeared to become more specialized with camps, professional hitting and pitching instructors, and more exposure to better competition it would be natural to conclude that the players should be better fundamentally than years past. But the theme of this topic is they aren't.

    I believe the expectations from parents has demanded there to be better coaching at the youth level than years past. So, what's the problem? Why aren't fundamentals stressed? HS coaches have never been involved past or present with youth associations before, so that has not been the problem.

    Is it simply because coaches at that level are looking strictly for talent instead of developing the talent? and if that is the case, one would have to conclude that travel teams are a detriment to developing the knowledge and fundamentals of young guys playing baseball.
     
  6. One Putt

    One Putt Full Access Member

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    Been down this road, TWICE, and have learned frrom my mistakes. Everyone raises some good points.

    Coach 27 is dead on. Focus at younger ages should be on developing fundamentals, not winning tourneys. Unfortunately parents see their kids team losing to some teams and feel their kids are falling behind. That's not always the case. just because some AAU is winning more games doesn't mean their coach is a better teacher of the game. He could be a great salesman. To aguyyouknow's point, you will always find a team with more horsepower or a coach that recruits better. Many good AAU teams come from coaches that can recruit well, not necessarily teach the game. Parents see winning as a measuring stick instead of focusing on development. My oldest played for a very good aau team for a year or so and he did learn some things. However all those trophies were either thrown away or stored long ago. He had more fun the next year with a weaker team but was more focused on development. If you can find a travel ball team that focuses on teaching more than winning I think this is a good option. My youngest is in a situation where he gets good instruction and less tourneys and a coaching staff that develops their kids instead of recruiting over the top of them.

    To Braves question to Plate Dad, one thing travel did help my son with is confidence. When you can play teams from all over and face their best pitching and hit it, it does help your confidence. When my son entered HS and stepped in the box against guys his age and a year older, he had confidence because he had already seen that level of competition and better. There was no intimidation. The boys that did not play travel ball had to go through a learning curve. Just this weekend my son sniffed out a suicide play that he learned when he was on a 12 year old travel team, and he didn't even catch for that team. He saw the runner inching down third, saw him break after the pitcher started his motion, screamed pitchout to the pitcher and his teammates, pitcher adjusted and threw outside, and the tag was applied. He has never been taught that in HS. It came from travel ball and watching his teammates. He would not have learned that in REC ball at 12.

    Plate Dad raises a good point about HS practices. I can't speak for other HS teams however we have approximately 30 kids out there (varsity and JV) and our coaches get stretched thin. Practices are focused on situations and who should be where and when (as they should be). It's tough to get individual instruction at practice. We're fortunate that we have 6 coaches and they make themselves available for 1 on 1 but this is done in their personal time and outside of practice. It puts a lot of demand on the HS coaches time. And they do it because they love it, not because they are getting paid 30 bucks for a half hour.
     
  7. One Putt

    One Putt Full Access Member

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    To JTbaseball's point. Our HS coaches (Coach Maness at Ragsdale and the Southwest Guilford Coach)conduct coaching clinics and give out several practice plans to the REC league coaches. They also work with our all-star teams and they do this over at the HS fields. In turn, the youth league makes donations to the HS program to help build battting cages and such. Working together we all accomplish more.

    The biggest problem is getting coaches to come to the clinics. So many dad coaches think they know it all since they played in HS. I learned more from going to these clinics that I ever knew when I played the game.
     
  8. Plate Dad

    Plate Dad It is what it is!!!!

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    Braves you are good. It is a fact that today the goal is get the best players put them on the field and they will win. And now even if you have a great team. It seems that parents are not satified with that they are about let's get this player or my son is to good for this team anymore. As I said my son had some great coaches. That's what they were, COACHES.
    I have said it before that OAC has coached my son and many players that are now on other success teams. Those kids were coached to be players. They know what is needed to earn a position hard work. They never fear about being replaced with a better player from somewhere else. New players came and pratice with the boys and they were asked what they thought and thats how new players came in. We have heard that baseball is about life it is. And that is what those boys were coached.
     
  9. JTbaseball

    JTbaseball Full Access Member

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    You pose several questions to me. I'll try and give you my thoughts the best I can. Maybe there is a widespread decline in the amount of kids playing youth baseball. However, what I notice in my area, is the growth of youth leagues and other youth teams. But, if it is well documented, then I trust the results you have found. Why is this? Who really knows. Maybe the opportunities in other sports are growing and overall, kids are making other choices. (this to me is a whole other topic)

    As far as your questions about camps, hitting instructors, pitching instructors and so forth. Camps - most that I have worked offer a tremendous amount of info and are overall very good camps. But they last any where from one day to four days. These kids can't retain info from one minute to the next at school, much less remembering the key points to hitting, pitching, baserunning etc. from a few days/hours of a camp. The hope behind most camps is that they do take way something valuable to them. But in the grand scheme of things, this alone would do little if it is not practiced after the camp.

    What percentage of kids playing youth baseball actually pay for personal instruction for some aspect of the game? I know it is a growing business, but when you look at total numbers, I think those that do get one-on-one instruction from a pro-hitter, pro-pitcher or some other qualified guy is relatively low. The key to this whole deal is the development of fundamentals. They take time. Lots and lots of hard work and time.

    If parents have been expecting more from coaches at this level, and we all see a lack of coaching, then I feel this validates my point that parents don't know what coaching is about. Coaching is about teaching and developing both mental skills and physical skills. Putting a team together, at any level, and playing games does not make you a coach. Parents might be demanding more. But I disagree that they are demanding more "coaching" and development. If so, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

    Let me put it like this. Parents and players are looking for thier kids to play on a winning team. They are looking for instant gratification, and winning now, has become the measuring stick no matter how poorly the "game" is being played. Kids are jumping from one team to the next and have no real consistancy with anyone who deos try to teach them. I agree with you, they are being recruited to play on the best team so they can win more stuff. No doubt these "coaches" are not looking to develop these kids. Heck, that goes for lots of baseball programs from the young kids to HS seniors. Pretty hard to develop when you never plant some roots and do some work.

    HS coaches involvment has not been the problem I agree. I just feel that it can be a part of the solution.

    Everyone is looking for a quick fix. The answers aren't found in a magic bullet, but rather in a bucket of sweat.
     
  10. Plate Dad

    Plate Dad It is what it is!!!!

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    Good point. Parents want that hardware. Most kids think it is great for that instance in time. Mom and Dad dust it and places it on the great trophy shelf.
     

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