Impact and Perfect Game

A few weeks ago there was a discussion of Impact Baseball and Perfect Game and how they handled their events. As my son attended the Impact Summer Showcase II at USC in Columbia, SC and was to attend Perfect Game’s Atlantic Coast Underclass Showcase at Duke in Durham, NC; I was asked if I would report back and give a comparison after he had completed both. So for those interested, I’ll give some detailed upfront information.

The Impact event was for rising Juniors and Seniors and the PG event for rising Sophomores and Juniors. Impact had primarily NC and SC players attend. PG had a nice mixture of players from New York down to Florida, and even one boy from Dublin that played on the Irish National Team. Both followed a similar format although there were differences. Both events were invitation only showcases.

Impact was 2 day, PG 3 day. Both started by running the 60yd (Impact hand timed and PG hand timed and laser timed with laser times visible to the participants - not the parents). Next the infielders fielded from short and threw to first, outfielders caught and threw to third and first, and catchers threw to second and pop times recorded. At PG, the throws for infielders, outfielders and catchers were clocked by radar gun also. At Impact pitchers threw bull pens and were clocked. At PG they were clocked during warm-ups on the mound before and during the games. I liked this as the speeds reported seemed to more closely resemble what you see during a game and not the maximums that the kids can throw. [Here I’ll get a little off track as I found out why they call the Stalker radar gun the “ego buster”. At Impact almost all the guns were Jugs, PG used Stalker. I watched one boy at Impact throw four straight pitches at 88. At PG he hit 83 three out of four and that was his high. Another boy that claimed 91 on a Jugs, hit a high of 81 at PG. Some of the difference may have been because the PG speeds were clocked during the warm-ups and game which would eliminate some overthrowing during a bull pen session but not all.]

At Impact metal or wood bats were allowed, at PG only wood could be used. If I remember correctly, the Impact games were 9 innings long at PG they were 10. PG also had a rule that should have helped the pitchers, no BB’s or HBP’s. After 4 balls or a hbp, the pitchers could throw nothing but 4 seam FB’s. The only way to get on base was with a hit or error. I had mixed emotions on this, I liked it when my son pitched but didn’t when he was batting, because it allowed the pitchers to continue to pick around the corners even after 4 balls or a hbp. Because part of Impact was rained out, I don’t know if they had an all star game. At PG, they did an abreviated evaluation of the players after the first two days, from this they selected two teams and had a 6 inning Top Prospects Game that used regular pitching rules on the third day. Neither gave much instruction although my son said that during the games the PG coaches were providing tips on play.

Now for some observations from my point of view: Both were very well run events. The staffs of both were friendly and approachable. The core talent levels at both events appeared to be very equal although it appeared to me that the talent at PG had less of a spread from top to bottom. PG costs more than Impact, almost double. PG provides more feedback than Impact. PG had the times and speeds posted the next day for players and parents to see. I never saw anything at Impact. PG said they would have the evaluations and write-ups for the players available on-line in 4 weeks. Impact doesn’t provide this service. PG had several of their people that did nothing but evaluate players during games. I didn’t observe this at Impact, to me it appeared any evaluations were done by scouts. Both events were fairly well attended by scouts but I can’t give an exact count because at Impact the scouts were easily identifiable as they were on the field with stop watches and radar guns. At PG they were in the stands and were primarily observing, Duke’s new coach was taking notes, and I assume relying on PGs times and speeds and ultimately on PG’s evaluation service. If I had to say, I think Impact had more scouts overall but PG appeared to have more scouts from the bigger schools. Part of the reason for this may have been because Impact had rising seniors that are currently recruitable. PG was an underclass event and the scouts may have been relying on PG to bird dog prospects and then they will follow them until they can contact them in July. Impact also had a lot of their dirtbag players attend their event, which was to be expected, but I didn't really like the fact that they were basically put together on the same team. A little bit of an unfair advantage during the games if the kids have been playing together all season long.

In summary, I liked both events although I would definitely like more feedback with regard to times and speeds from Impact and for them to split their attending players up on different teams. If Impact can’t provide detailed player evaluations they can post times and speeds at the event and on their website with little more effort or cost. Both events appear to be geared toward similar but slightly different audiences. Impact appears to be geared toward giving NC, SC & VA boys a place to display their skills. PG is national in scope and also gives the boys a place to display their skills but also provides an evaluation service that coaches subscribe to. If I have the money and my son gets invited, I wouldn’t mind him attending both again particularly if someone can get Impact to improve their reporting of participant performance.

 

Great feedback MVaughn..Thanks for posting this

 

Outstanding post. MV you obviously understand the game we love.

Comment that is slightly off topic, so I hope you won't mind: I was shocked at the difference between Stalker & Jugs. I had been told it was no more than 2 mph. 10 mph is ridiculous. Obviously one of the two is flawed. I cannot understand why in this age of technology that radar guns can't agree. This variance makes guns worthless, don't you think??

 

I bet that Highway Patrolman that gave me a ticket this past year on my way to Louisburg for a game was using a jugs radar gun... :imagestor

 

PG Showcase at Duke

My son also attended the PG showcase at Duke. He played with Carolina Cubs 18u team this summer and will play on the new 16u team this fall. He did attend an Impact showcase when he was a rising Freshman in HS. Both do a great job. Both start out with the pro style format with of throwing from rf to third and home to evaluate arm strength. PG guns the throws. Then inf all go to ss and throw to first with a ball to the left , right , at them and slow rolller. Then catchers pop times. All throws are gunned and recorded by pg. Then each team took bp about 12 swings a kid. From my observation I really liked the fact that the PG staff was constantly talking to the kids and offering coaching points to them. They had stalkers at the backstop and you could see the reading if you wanted to. Each team played three games over the two days Friday and Saturday which were 10innings. I did not like the no walk rule because it definitely gave the pitchers a huge advantage. Several times pitchers were behind in the count and kept throwing off speed off the plate untill the hitters finally gave in and swung at something sooner or later. Also they hit in numerical order. The jerseys were given out by size so the smaller kids got #1 and up and the larger sized kids got the higher numbers. Only 6 batters were allowed to hit per inning so most kids only got 2 abs per 10 innings some got three if they were the lower jersey numbers. Thats about the only negative thing I can say I saw. I was surprised that only 7 guys from NC were in attendance. On Sunday at 8am they had the top prospects game. This game was played with walks and no limit on how many kids to hit in an inning. They still hit in numerical order. There were some talented kids at this event. My son got instant feedback from several of the PG staffers. One took him to the side and spent several minutes just talking to him about baseball in general. I thought it was money well spent. Im looking forward to seeing the ratings on the kids and seeing if I saw what they did or how close it is to my opinion on the kids I saw.

NC Players in attendance

T. Hanover mif / of 07 Had a nice showing made the Top Prospects game on Sunday. Nice compact swing has some power. Runs well and plays a nice of. Looked solid in the inf. Good arm strength.

Q. Lattimore of 07 Runs very well and can flat go get it in the of. He swings it as well. Has power and hit well with the wood. He didnt show off any arm at all its my understanding its hurt right now. Hes a player. He made the Top Prospects game as well.

S. Myers mif / P 08 Steele looked really good. He pitched one inning in three games and showed off a good 12-6 hook and a nice change. I didnt see his gun reading but he was running it up there pretty good. Slick fielder with good arm strength. Steele also made the Top Prospect game.

N. Blackley of / p 08 Nash is a big kid 6-2 200lbs. He didnt swing too well this week end but he pitched four innings Friday and was in the low to mid 80's. Not bad for an 08. He had the best gun reading from the of at 86mph. Nash made the Top Prospect game as well.

D. Shambley c 07 He is solid behind the plate , very fundementally sound. His pops were consistently at 2.0 I think he had a 1.9 a couple of times. He swung the bat well. He has some pop. Seems like a great kid too just by the way he carries himself on the field. He made the Top Prospects game as well.

Sean Madden P 07 Sean is a tall kid 6-5 but very thin. He was dominating on the hill. He had a great curveball working and a nice change up. His fastball was in the low 70's which had alot of the kids way out in front. His mechanics and controll were outstanding. He was probaly the most effective kid I saw all week end on the hill. He did not make the Top Prospects game and Im sure it was because of his lack of velocity. But he pitched very well.

Jeff May C 08 My son so I will save the praise for another day. He showed well was consistent 2.0 pop some 1.9's. He also made the Top Prospects game.

If I missed anyone from NC I apologize. I think this is all of them but I could have missed one or two. Overall I would say that it was money well spent and a well run event.

 

I don't think the difference in the stalker and jugs was 10 mph. I think part was the difference in the guns and part was the way the pitchers were timed at the different events. To me, based on what I saw as I sat behind the gun most of the day, the difference in guns appeared to be 3-4 mph. More than has been advertised. My son only hit 78 on the stalker and that was during warmups between innings. He has been clocked previously at 82 with a jugs.

Coach May, I had forgot about the 6 batters per inning rule. That was definitely a help to some of the pitchers.

Also, my son - Michael Vaughn 3B/P/1B - was an 07 from NC and he also made the Top Prospects game, which by my count had 16 players per team. By your count, I really didn't pay as much attention as I should of who made the game as I was concentrating on my son, NC had 7 of the 8 NC players in attendance make the Top Prospects game. I believe that is an outstanding showing by the NC players.

 

I went back and checked and 12 NC players were listed on the rosters for PG. They were:

Robert Jr Long, Riverside, Durham, NC

David Shambley, Green Hope Cary, NC

Jeff May, South Granville Stem, NC

Nash Blackley, Kerr Vance Acad. Bullock, NC

Matt Sapp, West Forsyth Clemmons, NC

Steele Myers, Durham Jordan Chapel Hill, NC

Blake Harber, Cardinal Gibbons Cary, NC

Jacob Ezzell, Riverside Durham, NC

Quincy Latimore, Middle Creek Apex, NC

Michael Vaughn, Hopewell Corneilus, NC

Sean Madden, Charles E. Jordan Durham, NC

Tyler Hanover, East Forsyth Kernersville, NC

I don't know if they all showed up or not but all the teams appeared to carry their full roosters. Also, 7 of 12 making the Top Prospects game is still an impressive showing by the NC boys.

 

MVaughn

Which team did your son play on? What number was he? Yes it was a good showing by the NC boys. It has been my experience with the stalker vs jugs that the stalker is around 3-4 mph slower most of the time. Again I apologize for omitting the other NC boys. Im not sure like you if they all showed up. I was surprised that only 12 attended the event seeing that it was at Duke. There were a ton of kids from Virginia.

 

Some guns get the speed of the ball out of the hand while others get the speed it crosses the plate at.

 

Coach May;
My son was number 13 on the Royal team. I don't think we played your sons team. He did pitch the first inning of the Top Prospects game and then played 3rd and then moved to 2nd. Unfortunately he didn't so well pitching, and he had a couple of errors committed behind him. He said his arm was tight and tired as he had pitched 4 innings in the final game on Saturday and just didn't have much zip left. He did pitch well in Saturday's game and hit and fielded well the whole weekend. He said he really enjoyed the experience. He liked playing with Q. Lattimore and thought he was a good player and really fast, as he was no. 12 on Michael's team and he and Lattimore got to talk a good bit as he batted just in front of Michael during the games.