limit pitches & curve balls ??

lot of homers

I don't have stats , but seems like the balls are really jumping out of the LL ballpark (205') more than ever. wonder if they will consider pushing the fences back as well.

 

Most daddy's who are livin through their son in Little League know how to throw some form of a curveball that breaks so that's what they teach their kid. None of them know how to properly teach a changeup and that's why it isn't thrown. Look how many high school coaches don't even call a changeup but instead teach the curveball or slider. I know of one high school coach who feels the slider is the best pitch in baseball and completely refuses to teach/call a changeup.

There's really no way to outlaw the curveball. How will you prove a kid is throwing a curve? I know the break and everything but the coach can just claim he tinkered with how the kid held a fastball or changeup and it breaks like that. Pitch counts will be hard to control as well. The only thing to really control is the innings pitched and even that would be hard.

 

According to Dr. Mike Marshall, Ph.D., the real reason pitchers of all ages and levels (Little League through Major League) develop arm injuries is because of the stresses placed on the muscles, tendons, ligaments and bones by the Traditional Pitching Motion.

This includes all pitches, not just curve balls.

The Traditional Pitching Motion has many flaws that cause pitching arm injuries. Here are a few examples:

1. "Reverse Pitching Forearm Bounce" -
When they start moving their pitching upper arm forward, ‘traditional’ pitchers are still moving their pitching hand backward. As a result, they rupture their Ulnar Collateral Ligament. This is a serious, injury-producing flaw.

2. "Pitching Forearm Flyout" -
Because ‘traditional’ pitchers generate horizontal centripetal force, they sling their pitching forearm, wrist, hand, fingers and the baseball laterally away from their body. As a result, they slam their olecranon process into its fossa (in the elbow). That’s a loss of range of motion injury flaw.

3. "Supinate the Curve Release" -
When they throw curves, ‘traditional’ pitchers turn their thumb upward through release (supinate). As a result, they injure their pitching elbow because they slam their olecranon process into its fossa (in the elbow).


Dr. Marshall has developed a completely new pitching motion that does not cause arm injuries. His pitching motion is the result of his scientific study of the pitching motion from 1967 to the present. The essence of his pitching motion is to apply straight-line forces to each pitch and to pronate the pitching forearm upon release of all pitches. In addition he has a training routine to strengthen the muscles and bones in the pitching arm so it can better withstand the stresses of the pitching motion.

In addition to the pitching motion he teaches six different pitches so his pitchers can throw pitches that have different velocities and movement in and away from batters. Fastballs (move in and away), Curve (down and away), Screwball (down and in), Slider (down and away), and Sinker (down and in).

Dr. Marshall has a training center in Zephyrhills, Florida (near Tampa) where he does his research and trains pitchers. He has a website www.drmikemarshall.com that explains his pitching motion and contains a log of questions he has answered about his pitching motion and training going back to the year 2000.

Later this year he hopes to have a video available that compares/contrasts his pitching motion to the Traditional Pitching Motion. In it he will identify the specific motions (like the 3 listed above) that cause pitching arm injuries and explain how his pitching motion avoids those injuries.

Dr. Mike Marshall is the same Mike Marshall that pitched in the Major Leagues from 1967 to 1981.

 

While I think that issues like pitch counts and mechanics are important considerations here, I worry that we place so much emphasis on them that we neglect the question of the player's preparedness to pitch. My concern is that too many young pitchers do too little to prepare their bodies for the stress that throwing off the mound causes. Experts know through scientific analysis that throwing off a mound creates several times the amount of stress caused by throwing off of flat ground.

My son has taught me that time on the mound requires (1) regular exercise to strengthen the shoulder, back, abdomen, and legs, (2) frequent throwing on flat ground to include long toss, (3) a flexibility routine, (4) drills intended to reinforce proper mechanics, (5) frequent distance running to improve stamina, and (6) appropriate warm-up and cool down routines before and after mound work.

As I look back on it, I feel fortunate that my son was introduced to a pitching coach around the age of 13 who emphasized the significance of preparation, and that he was wise enough and disciplined enough to incorporate the coach's teachings into his time on the practice field and in the gym. Later (about the age of 16), some sessions with a sports therapist reinforced and fine tuned what he was doing.

I encourage parents and coaches of young pitchers to find ways to introduce them to the importance of preparation. Then, it's up to them to determine whether they turn the knowledge into a habit. If they will, it'll make them better pitchers and take some of the pressure off of related considerations like pitch counts.

 

an interesting read with all the arm trouble the younger pitchers are having in MLB. see attachment. Read another article a while back by a trainer for the Boston Red Sox that was blaming all the arm trouble on the young pitchers in the major leagues on the fact that the pitchers coming into MLB today have been kept on such strict pitch counts they are unable to pitch 9 innings every 5 days. He laid as much blame on their own minor league system as the colleges and high schools. I wish that the younger kids would study what Roger Clemens does for his workouts.

http://www.asmi.org/SportsMed/youth/PITCHCNT.PDF

 

Just on a side note, Clemens' son, Kobi (or however you spell it), is tearing up the minor leagues and has his team working out every morning at like 8am doing the same stuff his dad does.

 

Interesting topic and one that could be discussed "forever"!!

In my opinion there are so many factors that come into play, it's impossible to pinpoint a certain number for the "perfect pitch count". Conditioning, mechanics, pitch selection, game situations, habits in between appearances, rest in between starts, play another position, weather, etc. etc. etc. all affect coaches decisions regarding pitch counts (or at least mine).

My list of causes for arm trouble includes, in no particular order:

1. Too many breaking balls...(nobody wants to throw the fastie!!)
2. Pitiful bullpens.
3. Pitiful conditioning.
4. Not enough throwing (not pitching, but throwing) in the off-season and during the season.
5. Too much rest. I believe that most parents get caught up in "rest" and don't realize that "rest" may not be best!!
6. Mentality of the pitcher. If a guy gets caught up in pitch counts, rest, days between starts, etc. (which he will because he hears it all of the time) I believe that guy is more likely to have a sore, tired or tender arm.

UK...I find it interesting that you are pretty hardcore about the pitch count, but you defended Post #8 throwing Morton on 1-2 days rest often throughout the season/playoffs.

 

WSWball I Agree

I agree the variables are numerous.

 

wswball, You make a good point, but let me defend myself & our coach. I would have screamed to high Heaven if Mort had been an average situation...but he was not. As late as a month ago, Mort was never going to play baseball again. He attended Wilkes CC last fall, but financial responsibilities forced him to drop out of baseball. His situation had not changed at all prior to Post 8's run. So as another poster from Lexington ("Nine") pointed out, this summer's Legion season was Mort's world series.

The only way that could change would be if someone provided a way for him to attend school for free plus give him the financial support for personal expenses (automobile, gas, spending money, etc) A kid cannot work & play college baseball...No time for that. That seemed improbable, so Mort had no reason to rest his arm. His only ball future was Rec League softball.

The neat thing is that some people around Lexington voluntarily took up a collection to assist Andrew. That allowed him to entertain several college offers & accept a scholarship from Belmont Abbey.

Let me add: his situation was exceptional. Our other pitchers were not over-used. The closest that we came was using Zach White (our #2 at the State Tournament) on 2 days rest...but Zach threw only 57 pitches in the rain shortened Shelby game. He was feeling 100% & begged to get the ball. So he was allowed to return on 2 days rest (with his parents blessing).

Last thought: I'm learning as I read this thread. I fancy myself as a hitting expert, but pitching is out of my zip code. So I've appreciated all of insightful comments (including yours).

 

UK...I'm not disagreeing with you, I personally think pitchers should be able to pitch on shorter rest than they do nowadays. I just found it a little harsh I guess when you stated that "coaches should be fired who let a pitcher go past low 100's".