Little League pitchers

That doesn't sound like a lot at all, especially if they were spread out over that whole time period. Thats only averaging 2.72 innings per outing. Very reasonable, IMHO.

 

I think any discussion involving pitchers, pitch counts and especially younger guys is with this thread: http://www.thisboardrocks.com/forum/showthread.php?t=124503&highlight=James+Andrews

In his office in Birmingham, Ala., Dr. Andrews hands the parents of new patients a piece of chalk and points to a blackboard in the corner.

''I say, 'Write down when your child started playing his sport, how many teams he's played for, what camps he went to, for how many years, what private instructors he's seen, what championships he won, what his stats were, all that stuff,''' Dr. Andrews said. ''Then I walk out of the room. I come back in and they've filled up the blackboard. They're proud.

''And I say, 'You all know why he's here seeing me?' And I point to the blackboard. That's when the light bulb goes off.''

2nd point

In recent years, there has been an epidemic of elbow injuries in baseball pitchers requiring UCL reconstruction (“Tommy John Surgery”). For example, Dr. James R. Andrews operated on the elbows of 190 baseball pitchers (94 professional, 74 collegiate, 21 high school, and 1 recreational) between 1995 and 1999, and the elbows of 627 baseball pitchers (198 professional, 303 collegiate, 124 high school, and 2 recreational) between 2000 and 2004. Comparing these consecutive five-year periods, there were approximately twice as many elbow surgeries for professional pitchers, and four times as many elbow surgeries for collegiate pitchers. The amount of elbow surgeries for high school baseball pitchers shows the most alarming and drastic increase, as there was six times as many elbow surgeries when comparing the five-year periods. Elbow injuries requiring UCL reconstruction due to baseball pitching are clearly a growing problem at all levels, and particularly at the high school level.
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BigStick, I don't know if your son's pitching too much now or not, but I guess what would concern me is him pitching since age 8.

Let me tell you what I have seen many times over the years at different schools, with my own sons, and even back in my own days as a little leaguer and HS player. You go to your son's practice today and don't say nothing but just pick out your top 3 pitchers that throw all your innings, and oftentimes those 3 horses who have been pitching for all their little league teams, on the weekends, on the allstar teams, for so long,,, will NOT pitch very effectively in high school.

Then just look around at the practice field, and believe it or not, the 3rd baseman, maybe your 1st baseman and a couple outfielders are going to be your son's high school pitchers,,,,,,,,, because nobody is burning out their arms now. That happens.

 

08-17-07, 11:42 AM
niknat
Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Hendersonville, NC
Posts: 128

DO OVER? OOPS, TOO LATE!

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Ther are alot of things that I wish I could go back and do over in raising a baseball player.
But one major thing comes back to mind reading this thread. My son was 13 and playing USSA ball and league ball at the same time. He pitched alot for the travel team but the coach for the league team was a friend of mine and he agreed to not pitch my son if he had pitched the weekend before of was to pitch the upcoming weekend. Of coarse the competitive nature takes over in the kids, parents and coaches and we did some dumb things. We wanted to win the league real bad and so my son pitched some in the "BIG" games. Then one weekend he was playing a USSSA tournament in Hickory and we were playing a real good team, I think it was Columbia Braves, at that time they were ranked no. 1 in SC and 4th in the country, so we wanted to win bad again. He started the game and pitched one of the best games of his life against a really good team. My son was small but had a cannon and alot of movement and the other team was really ticked off at him for mowing them down and started talking trash. Well that just made us want to beat them even more so my sone didn't want to come off the mound. He's hardheaded like his Mama. In the last inning with the temp around 100 degrees the coach finally went out and pulled him off the mound. He was so exausted that he collapsed on the bench and couldn't even go play the field for the last inning.

We won that "BIG" game and we were so proud and thought everything was great. Well the next week we went to Florida for a USSSA World Series and in the 2nd inning my son felt a pop in his elbow. It was a growth plate that was moving as he was growing. It had lined up with the tendon that moves the wrist through when you throw. He didn't pitch for a couple of days and we had another "BIG" game with a team from Florida, The Dragons, so he wanted to pitch and he did because we all wanted to win the "BIG" game. When we got back home ALL Stars was starting for our league and he had played with them every year so he had to again. The 1st time he tried to pitch he didn't make it past the 2nd inning, he pitched great and gave up no hits but his elbow was hurting.

The next week we were in the SE Regionals and made it to the championship game and Nick wanted to pitch, so he did and pitched 4 no-hit innings and we won and went on to the Babe Ruth World Series in Louisanna. In the 1st game in about the 3rd inning Nick threw a kid out at home from right field and after he let go of the ball he hit the ground in pain. He had to come out of the game. He played the rest of the World Series but could not throw 1 pitch. When he got to what really could have been a big game for him he couldn't pitch. You never know what might have been but we ran out of pitching and finished 5th. The boys to this day say "if Nick could have pitched we would have won the World Series".

This is a long post but I wanted to give a little detail about some of those games that I labeled as "BIG GAMES". At the time we though they were big. Don't think you have to let your son pitch too much because it's a big game. Those games only exist in my memory now, they weren't big at all.

The next year Nick was all healed up and played varsity as a freshman but he played outfield and didn't pitch much mainly because he was so young and they didn't need him to pitch. In the summer though he played All Stars again and returned to his pitching form. He was 14 now and had gotten stronger and his HS coach had taught him a curve ball. He was pitching great and pitched 7 games before he gave up an earned run. He told me his elbow was hurting in another spot and it didn't hurt him to pitch but it hurt to touch the tip of his elbow. I told him as long as it didn't hurt to pitch to keep on. Looking back now I know that my ego was feeding so much off of his pitching success that I was almost addicted to him pitching, Does that make sense? That is the only way to describe it.

He ended up having to have surgery. They put a 3 inch screw in my son's arm and it is still there today. He still plays baseball starting his 2nd year of college now but he doesn't pitch anymore. He was a great pitcher with alot of potential that will never be realized because of the so called big games he had to pitch as a 13 and 14 year-old kid.

Have you ever seen an x-ray of a 13 year old's elbow? If you have a kid that is a young pitcher you need to find a picture of a 13 year-old elbow and compare it to an exray of a 19 year-olds elbow. They look like they come from 2 different animals. A 13 year-old's elboy has small bones held on by growth plates that will eventually attach themselves to the main arm bones that will form the elbow joint. If these small bones are tugged and pushed they will not line up where they are supposed to and will attach in the wrong place on the arm and the elbow will be deformed. My son's elbow has a funny not on the point. His arm doesn't hurt him and he throws fine and I thank God for that but I can't help but think about what could have been.

We have people asking on TBR about what they can do to get their son noticed by the college and when to start trying to get looked at. Please, Please don't push your kid's to pitch too much. Some coaches will question the kid's toughness if the parents want to limit the pitch count. Some high school coaches will pitch a kid to death and tell the parents not to tell them what to do with "their team". They forget they are still your kid so don't back down. My son was pushed to pitch again too soon in high school after his surgery and when I approached the coach about it he started yelling at me. Looking back I wish I had taken more drastic measures instead I just let the coach keep on. I know some parents get too involved and want to control more but when it comes to the safety of your child don't back down.

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Last edited by Braves; 06-27-08 at 08:48 AM.


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#20 08-17-07, 11:59 AM

 

I get a "Do-over"

I tried to put in that post from last year that I wrote. I hope it came thru ok.

I am helping coach my 8-year old's fall league baseball team and this is when they start pithing for the 1st time. My oldest son has been there to help with the pitchers but he moves out and in to Brevard College tomorrow.

The head coach has never coached kids pitching before so he is leaning on me for that. I told him that we need to let all of the kids pitch so they can learn and so we won't start them out pitching too much. My little one is all excited about pitching but he is so young. This is a 9-10 year old league but he won't be 9 until April 12. I am vowing to not over pitch him or any other kid. The head coach won the spring league so it will be hard to get him to hold back but I am going to. I intend to educate the parents of all of the kids about the chances of arm trouble from over use.

I will advise them to let their kids play other sports as well. When my oldest got to High School he wanted to play football but I didn't let him because I was worried about him getting hurt. He regrets not playing football now that he is in college. Like I said before. It is your child!! Don't let any coach hurt him. That feeling in your gut is probably right when it tells you they are getting hurt. Kids are going to get hurt no matter what they are doing just don't let them get abused.

 

Great posts

This is a great thread imo. There is a lot of truth and it comes from real experiences in these posts. One thing I would like to add is there is a big difference in kids this age we are talking about and rising 9 10 11 12 grade players. As far as the pitching if they are in a good program there will be a lot of arms to use. None of the pitchers will be over used. And the kids that are serious about getting better and playing tough competition love what they are doing.

I say to all players that play on a summer and or fall team that what you are capable of doing on the weekends will be determined by what you are doing during the week. For me the big problem is with the 8-12 year old range players. They are rushing the process imo. They are focusing on playing too much and not learning enough. Getting better at baseball does not mean you spend all your time playing games. Getting better at baseball means you are doing the things that will make you a better athlete and working on the fundementals of the game.

My job I always felt when coaching younger players was not to win a trophy. My job was to foster an environment where learning and getting better at the game was fun and exciting. My job was to prepare them for the next level whatever that next level was. And I felt my job was to teach them a love and respect for the game. Love to practice. Love to hit. Love to take ground balls. Love to get stronger and more athletic. This should never take a back seat to playing games.

 

Over the past year, I have seen two news stories aobut this. The first was from Florida. A surgeon, almost in tears, described how he had to do TJ surgery on a 13 year old boy. The news team talked to him, and then a team in his league. A coach (and dad) bragged about playing for more than 10 monts and well over 100 games. In fact, he wisecracked he was sorry he had to take December off. Then the news crew went to a major league spring training camp and talked to 10 pitchers. Every one said they had only played no more than 4-5 months a year, and most played other sports.
Each was concerned that kids were playing this much and the potential for injury and burn out. The 2nd was a few weeks ago on Outside the lInes.
30% of the TJ surgeries are now on kids under the age of 18. Innings ??
I have seen innings that went probably 40 or more pitches. Parents,
make your own pitch count and insist son come out when its time.

 

There are exceptions to everything, there are some kids who pitch every year at every level and never have arm problems,,, but again the key word is exceptions, discussing issues like this is not to criticize or condemn, but to share,,, and (in a way) us older dads are simply sharing experiences (some personal and some that we have seen from others) to help younger dads/kids who are coming along. Heck if I could do things over, theres lots of things I would do over.

Here is another EXCEPTION, how bout a kid who never pitched until he got to college,,, he was then drafted in the 9th round by the NY Mets, and he has worked his way up to AAA. He has been described as having a FRESH ARM with a LOT OF POP and he will be in the Bigs real soon, the Mets love him, he is a local boy from Salisbury,NC...

http://www.nyfuturestars.com/pitchers.php?player=bobby_parnell