Major Controversy in Caldwell County Game

Unfortunately I still don't understand. Umpires do not always call things to the letter of the law. Like in a recent game, the ump was setting up on the outside shoulder of the catcher, a right handed batter, lefty pitcher. Catcher setting up on the black, the pitcher throwing sweeping curves. The ump called everyone a strike that hit the mit, and that was alot - not because it crossed any portion of the plate. He HAD to see it wasn't crossing the plate but the pitcher was making a good pitch so it was a strike.

If there was no taunting and the ball was out of play, it should have been ignored. You don't take the game away from the kids unless there is a big problem. I wasn't there but this sounds like normal play. Is there another governing body that has such a worthless rule?

 

Sweeping curveballs is total judgement. Can you really say that the umpire thought the ball wasen't actually going over the plate? Did you ask him after the game? Were you standing right over the catcher's shoulder watching the pitch? Or were you sitting in the stands, looking through a fence, through an umpire 30 ft away? You know, I may be getting off on a tangent right now, but it's really funny to me when fans moan and groan about balls and strikes when they have ABSOLUTELY no vantage point, angle or training.

That aside, I know what you mean about the letter of the rule and the spirit of the rule. However, my point was, in this case the letter of the rule must be applied because that is exactly what we were told to enforce by our boss. Mr. Cline knows the rules probably as well as anyone in the state. I support Mr. Cline's ejections because he was doing exactly what he was told to do.

 

From what I was told:

1) The umpire warned West Cald. twice about coming out of the dugout.
2) West Cald. came out again to celebrate and crowd around home plate.

Yes, I support the disqualification of all players who came out to celebrate. Otherwise, what's the point of the rule? If you're not going to enforce it, then why even have it. Why warn the team if you're not going to back up your warnings with the penalty?

I know this seems controversial, but its only because its a new point of emphasis. Remember a few years ago when the umpires were calling strikes when the batter didn't keep one foot in the batter's box? Same thing - it was a point of emphasis to speed up the game. Some umpire's refused to enforce that rule, some enforced it like they were supposed to. This caused a great deal of confusion among players, coaches, and fans. A team would get it called against them one game and not against the opposing team the next game. A couple years later, the NFHS modified the rule and everyone was happy again. Its the same thing with this point of emphasis - I'll bet the rule is modified next year to read something like: "If players come out of the dugout before the ball becomes dead, they are disqualified" As it reads now, they cannot come out at all to celebrate a homerun, even if the ball is dead.

I agree a high school homerun should be celebrated, I don't really have a problem with that, however if it happens in my varsity game tonight, I will warn the coach of both teams, then if it happens a second time, I will disqualify the offending players.

 

TNT,,, as you can tell, I deleted my comment. I'm done with this topic, it isn't going anywhere. I wish you well as an umpire. And yes I agree with you, I hope this rule is modified as soon as possible. The sooner the better.

 

Some things are too silly to even comment on. This ranks at the top. I have heard football coaches and basketball coaches complain about celebration penalties and they always point to the home run celebration in baseball. Makes you wonder why this has even been an issue?

 

(emphasis added) I agree with some of you that the rule was misapplied, no matter what the other words say. The homerun dictum is unrelated to the live ball territory rule; the rule is misapplied because the ball is not "alive" until the pitcher has a new ball, the next batter is in the box, and the umpire signals play ball. Watch the umpire in a major league game. He actually throws the pitcher a new ball while the home run hitter is circling the bases. There are other "dead ball" situations where runners advance, like advancing after the ball is thrown out of play. In both situations, the ball is dead and the batter/runner is entitled to advance during the dead ball situation.

The committee seems to know that its caution is unrelated to the rule it sights when it asks that "proper behavior" be recommended to "avoid unsporting-like occurrences, thus avoiding rule legislation to quell celebration around home plate..." The committee recognizes, itseems to me, that a new rule would be necessary to allow the umpire to do what he did in this game.

It is a real shame any way you look at it. I hope a formal protest was filed.

 

Is Play Dead On A Homerun?

I saw a high school game in Charlotte about five years ago where a player hit a homerun with 2 outs and a man on base. Of course, his teammates were waiting to congratulate the hitter at home plate. After the celebration and the players went back to the dugout, the umpire calmly walked over to the dugout and singled out the base runner as being out for not having stepped on home plate. Now that was hard to believe. Since that was the third out, the homer didn't count. What is the interpretation of the rules on a play like this? The umpire didn't call time after the homerun, so is play really dead?

 

I honestly think this is the most rediculous thing I have ever heard. How, I mean how, can you take that away from players? I've hit plenty of homers throughout little league, middle school, and high school and it always feels good to be congratulated by my team when I get to the plate. As an umpire, I really don't care if it's in the rulebook, how can you enforce that rule? Are the coaches or players going to complain to higher officials that you didn't do your job because you let them celebrate the homerun? I could understand if all of them pointed at the pitcher and laughed at him, but that's not even close to the case. The rules for high school baseball seem more to me like little league rules. The people that wrote the rulebook must think the teams carry 10 year olds or kids that live life in a bubble instead of 15-18 year old guys here, it's unreal. I've played games where we were allowed to sit outside of the dugout and hang out with the team, and then the next game they tell us its not safe to sit outside the dugout. Well why don't they tell that to legion teams, even college teams? Is it because they might be a year or so older than the high schoolers? Or is it because they treat high school kids like middle school kids, and middle school kids like babies?

I agree with the guys that said these umpires that enforce the rule are probably the kids that got cut from the high school J.V. team and take their anger out on the talented part of America. Any guy that has played ball throughout their career could not do this, could not enforce this rule. You say, why make the rule if you're not going to enforce it? Well, Why did they make the rule? Could they even tell you that? I don't want to hear it's for safety reasons, or taunting, because it's not. What about that whole situation makes it wrong? Makes it worth saying "you can't do that"? You might as well call the guy that hit the homerun out, if it's in the rulebook, would you enforce it?

 

I agree..

I think that the play is still live until the umpire calls for "Time".; I have seen the rule for missing home plate applied more than once. While it is "cheesey", it is still the rule.

As for the umpire: The more that I have read on this thread, the more support I am feeling for the umpire. After 2 requests to the coach and players, his requests were ignored; Thus he has no choice but to fully enforce this obviously questionsable rule. As in most cases we probably do not have both sides of the story. Did he have any other options... Disqualify the coach, disallow the run..?

 

There is a special (different) high school federation rule that requires the umpire to call a runner out for missing a base, without an appeal of any kind -- stupid rule (IMHO), but if he sees it, he calls it at the end of the play. It has nothing to do with the ball being live or not. Anyway, if the ball leaves the field of play, it is a dead ball. Runners can advance by and according to whatever the applicable rule is (home run, ground rule double, overthrow, etc.), but the ball is dead until the umpire puts a ball back in play. Of course if the runner misses a base while advancing according to the applicable rule, in high school the umpire is required to call him out once he no longer has the right to re-trace his steps and touch the missed base (in your example when he entered the dugout). In every other rulebook I know about, the runner would only be outif the opponent properly appeals the missed base once play has resumed.