Over-coaching

Since so many guys we know played in the CWS last nite, I'll post on this thread to get away from the goofballs on the other TBR thread.

Anyone else think Fox over-managed last nites game?

 

Last nights game

I saw the posts on the other thread. No need to comment on that. I for one did not think he over coached last night at all. First of all lets talk about Flack at third. He was outstanding as usual in the field and made every play. Gore started at second and did a good job and was lifted in a critical situation for offense. He brings in a guy that started most of the year and he has confidence in or he would not have brought him in. Fed at first. Great hands he is a catcher by the way. On the play in the 8th where the run scored Fed was playing deep as he should have been and the ball took a high bounce. The runner had serious wheels and Steed new he had to get rid of it quick. Fed had to bust to the bag and was just getting there when the throw arrived. He was not in a great fielding posistion and the throw was a little up the line. Would Flack have made the play? We will never know. The bottom line is there was a ton of other plays in the game and a ton of abs with risp. That one play in itself did not win or loose the game. Fox did a great job with this team and made the tough calls that every coach has to make in that situation. If they win he is a hero. If they loose he overmanaged or didnt push the right buttons. There is a fine line between winning and loosing a game like that. It was just not meant to be its not anyones fault. They had a great season and represented themselves as usual with class.

 

UNC and Fox

Game outcome had nothing to do with that specific error and had everything to do with leaving men on base in several innings.

Team had a great run and did a good job. Heck, nobody thought they would get to this point based on how they did in the ACC tourney. Give 'em some credit, being one of the two best college baseball teams in the country is pretty damn good!

 

Carolina gave the game away last night by A) Not getting big hits with runners on B) continuing to not field bunts. After watching UNC play six times this week, I have to say that they have fantastic pitching but are pretty darn avg at the plate and well below avg defensively. With 20/20 hindsight, the things that Fox should have done differently in the last game are:
1) Sent the runner home from third on the single to left early in the game. They just weren't going to get many more chances.
2) Left Gore in to bat with the bases loaded. Ended up screwing up the defense and the pinch hitter looked terrible.
3) Attempted the steal of home one pitch earlier
4) Put Federowicz behind the plate to stop OSU from running wild

Man, sure is easy to do AFTER the fact.

 

How about the baserunning. Sending a runner home on a ball hit to 3rd? :229031_ha

 

If it ain't broke...

Errors and mental mistakes are part of baseball.
Carolina's team fielding % over the season was .965 vs opponents .962.
OSU won the college world series in game two by forcing overreactive defensive lineup changes in game three.
We'll never know how this affected the hitting of Flack,Fronk and Fedex, but they only had one hit between them in game three.
If a defensive upgrade was in order, why not Kyle Shelton ?
One error in 69 chances playing multiple positions with a .328 batting average.

With that being said, Coach Fox is a great college coach who seemed to have a crystal ball in the dugout all thru the regionals, supers and CWS bracket play. He made all the right moves and he did it for the most part with instate players. Congrats on a great season !

 

I think he over coached

I see your points but come out on the other side of the fence. I think he micro-managed way too much.

1. Players are not "plug and play"... reps are important, each position is different. The ball comes off the bat different in left than right. second is different than short. first is different than third. there isn't anything like catcher. (it took scott hattenburg a year on the A's to transition from catcher to 1st base).

In my book Steed did fine as did Flack in the field. Federowicz had a great pick but then got all tangled and off balance at a crucial time. And BJ didn't get guys out out at second... particulary one that was DOA - but got in only due to a high throw, that steal got the Beavers juiced and wound up scoring the first OSU run I think.

2. Players' mental states are more - or at least as - important as their physical state. What a coach does is stickier than what he says. If a coach doesn't let you see the light of day in the CWS, thats sending a message. Then voila... you are supposed to believe coach thinks I'm "great" and has "full confidence"? The kid knows what's goin on. Then again you could be pumpin molten lava at 96-97 and have just retired 13 straight (everybody in the line-up plus some) and the coach looks quizically (IMO) coming out to visit wheels turning, what's that action saying? The kid was pitching the game of his collegiate life. What're we trying to do: 1) break up the rythym of a line-up that hasn't sniffed a hit for 4 innings or 2) break up the rythym of a pitcher who is destroying the other team? Actions speak louder than words.

So for all the jockeying around what offensive productivity was gained? Zippo. We can look at the stats. Defensively, its a more speculative call but I think the evidence (not by a lot) goes against him (catcher & first base play).

So, objectively, he gained nothing and subjectively he probably took something away. He tried cute little things by re-arranging 30-40% of his line-up (a big bet) and nothing panned out. Since the world is performance based, I conclude he over-coached.

Which isn't the same as losing the game. The players did that. I just don't think coaching was helpful in this particular game.

 

As to the original question, yes. Mike Fox and almost every other college coach "micro Manages" the game. From calling EVERY pitch, EVERY location, EVERY throw over, and EVERY pickoff attempt to the absurd stepping out of the box to stare down the third base coach after EVERY pitch......college baseball is getting to be a farce. TEACH your players how to play the game....if you know how. College baseball is beginning to resemble a video game with the coaches working the controllers.

 

I agree whole heartedly with Squid. Fox made no moves in that final game that helped his teams game performance. In truth, strong arguements can be made that he hindered their ability to perform to their maximum potential. So yes, I feel he overcoached. Did he cause the game to be lost? No one can ever say but on this particular night, he sure didn't help.

 

Was the ump sending the dug-out a message?

In the 8th when Bard was pitching and walked the batter, how could the umpire call a fastball waist-high down the middle - a ball. The slider earlier looked pretty good to me, a perfect pitch but maybe the depth perception and camera angle missed something the ump could see. I'm suspect.

Was he sending the dug-out a message? Though that walk led to the game-winning run, I don't think the game was fixed so "sending a message" is the only explanation I could come up with.

Anybody have the game on TiVo and can replay to see what I'm missing?