Part of the Game or Cheating?

Is it good baseball to teach players to call out pitches from second base while your team is hitting or is this considered cheating? Is this a common practice being taught in high school or is this frowned upon by most reputable coaches?

 

What are you teaching kids by doing that? I feel as if instead of teaching the kids on the bases what pitch is being thrown you need to be teaching the batters what the situation is and to adjust and hit whatever pitch the pitcher is throwing. I do consider this cheating and is not teaching the batters anything. What if the baserunner is telling the batter it is a fastball and it ends up being a curve ball now the batter has something else to deal with , and we all know that hitting a baseball tuff any how. I have seen alot of coach's try and teach some of these cheating things and they never have a quality team. Teach the kids the proper way to play the game and that is not one of them.

 

If I were the coach, I wouldn't teach it; but, knowing that it happens with some frequency, I'd make darned sure that my catcher changed the signs...and that the pitcher was on the same page with him.

Meanwhile, if I coached at a level above high school, there'd be an understanding that, if the the game's circumstances allowed it, the perpetrator of the sign stealing would go home with the seams of a baseball "tattooed" in red on his hip.

 

Agreed.

 

Stealing signs in baseball has been going on for years. Some of it is just trying to get in the head of the pitcher. Guy on 2nd base starts giving signals acting like he knows whats coming, while really he knows nothing. Pitcher & catcher start worrying about their signs instead of , well, you get the point.
I say it's always been a part of the game.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=kurkjian_tim&id=1857661

 

Ch eating is defined as doing something against the rules. stealing signs is not against the rules. That is why the catcher hides the signs from the opposing bench and changes them with a runner on 2nd. Defensive teams also try to steal the 3b coaches signs to hitters and runners. It is part of the game. Many hitters do not want the signs as they feel they hit better instinctively. Catchers and coaches can change signs to mess up the opposition if they feel they are stealing or getting close to stealing signs. I have seen bench players even try to steal signs from the coach to the catcher. I coached for many years and never taught anyone to steal signs. Many of my players did it on their own.

 

I never trust a runner stealing signs giving the right info. It happens--everywhere--but...it stinks. It's one thing stealing signs from a coach, but to look inside from 2nd to try and steal a sign, then relay it is cheating.

But the question is "teach players to call out pitches from second base." That's not baseball, that's sandlot.

 

Calling them out from second -verbally- is about as bush league as it gets. At the same time, shame on the pitcher and catcher for making it that easy. I know guys get ear holed for less. Respect the game or go play soccer.

Figuring out opposing teams signs is as old as the game and gives the guys in the dugout a challenge. But don't bark them from the bag, Nancy.

 

It depends....

There are a lot of ways to play the game and they are played out all over the state. In my mind, signaling the pitch as a base runner from second base is a technique that occasionally occurs, often with mixed results...many batters don't want the tip as it can often be off the mark. I think there are four ways teams and players execute the game.

1. Straight up....by the rules, and good sportsmanship governs most decisions and seldom is seen anything unseemly.
2. Advanced....playing the game like it is played at the big league level. Looking for an edge whenever it is available, but still respecting the rules (including the unwritten ones), knowing that retaliation is possible when caught breaking an unwritten rule.
3. Cheating....steroids & HGH (not just a grown up problem), illegal bats, ineligible players, roster-tampering, etc.
4. Bush league....trick plays that have the coach in an active role. Thinking of a coach who doesn't coach with "Grace" who ran down the line screaming his head off for a runner to return to third base who never left base in an attempt to induce a game-winning balk (wasn't successful). Same coach came into pitch in a Showcase event at ECU and we all "Twisted" in our seats when we realized he was 28-30 years old. That stuff was much more offensive to me than any signal-stealing attempt I have witnessed.

 

As a player this is how I feel about picking up signs while one 2nd. I feel very fortunate to have had the chance to play with great hs and college coaches and on both teams my coaches addressed this issue the same way. They NEVER taught us or coached us on picking up or relaying signs from second, however if we asked for their opinion they would give us some things to think about and leave it up to us.

As a runner, I always try to pick up the catchers signs. When on second I always try to pick up signs for my benefit as a base runner, as well as to possibly help out the hitter if he wants to know the sign (I always make sure to know every player on my teams preference as to whether they want to know the sign or not). From my experience players are about 50/50 as to whether they want the signs or not. I have always wanted to know the sign but usually there are only 2 or 3 people I would really trust to relay me the correct sign consistently so I'd ask those players to relay them and other to not.

Our system for relaying signs is non-verbal and so subtle that even the trained eye would have a hard time to pick out what we were doing. My pops, who's seen thousands of baseball games, had no idea I ever relayed signs until I told him when we were watching a game together and I noticed another player doing it. Our system has 3 possible signals to relay. It's simply, fastball, off-speed, or I dont know.

Even if a batter doesn't want signs form me while I'm on second I still try to figure out the pattern or sequence just for my benefit. If I know a breaking ball is coming I will roll into my secondary and if I see the ball is going to bounce I'll take off even before it hits the ground. Another thing that is seldom taught that I have benefited greatly from is looking in for signs from first. Occasionally catchers will get lazy and you will be able to pick up their signs when on first. As a guy who had the green light from time to time, this was pure gold. You have to be careful doing this because a crafty pitcher will occasionally pick off while getting a sign. I know most coaches will never teach this because obviously when you're looking in for a sign your eyes aren't on the pitcher. I take about half of my normal lead and look in for signs and if I see the pitcher move at all in my peripherals I head back, but if he comes set I extend out to my normal lead. It works for me, I know its unorthodox and not recommended but I truly believed its made me a better baserunner.

Is it cheating to pick up signs? Personally I don't think so. If your system is so easy that I can decipher signs after 3 or 4 pitches then props to me for figuring them out. As far as relaying them to a batter, If someone is smart enough to figure out what the catcher's calling, your probably smart enough to relay them to a batter without getting caught. After all, you don't want the pitcher and catcher switching up their system that you've worked hard to figure out.

Just my opinions. I don't expect to be in the majority here, just wanted to share my thoughts.