Pro-Style Workouts

My son is in high school now, and been playing baseball since 5 yrs. old. As he's gotten older, he , just like most kids in high school, wanted to see what all the fuss was about with showcase ball, ID camps, ect. Myself, having coached baseball since graduating from college was curious also. Now having attended a couple of tryouts for each and ID camps as well, I found the most overrated tryout system is the pro-style workout. The 60 time does not lie, but does not truly measure time from home to 2nd. It's a good gauge, but... As for 4 throws from the outfield to see arm strength, true, I see the strength of arms, but how about a jump off the bat or reading ground balls, angles, ect. 5 ground balls to an infielder to see arm strength OK. Assuming they're fundamentally sound, it does not measure a true test of ability on the infield. Catchers pop times? Is cheating involved in the equation? How about blocking, handling pitchers, ect? Oh, and pitchers? Throwing against a radar gun, enough said there. I to like velocity, but knowing how to pitch is more important to me. Hitting 10 pitches if they're looking for power, backside ability, bat speed, I have no problem with.

ID camps are not tryouts, so I understand why this format. A lot of $ is passed along these lines. So one hopes that their kid is really being looked at fairly. Arm strength, bat speed, actions, ect. Having seen a lot of these kids play and seeing some of the names dropped as "prospects", is really making me wonder about a pro-style workout. Some "prospects" are nor will be more of a prospect than myself. This is not a cheap shot on ID camps, because unless you've seen the kids play, or trust a credible source, then it's just your guess as to who is a prospect, unless my meaning of prospects is different. This is a cheap shot on the pro-style workout. Impact, for example, seems to have a great reputation, and does get around to see kids play, and maybe would gauge things differently, if time permitted. 100-200 kids, you have to be time effecient.

Now, what about team tryouts with less than 30 kids. Why bother, if you're doing the pro-style workout? Coaches that can't be more creative than that for the amount of $ being asked to spend. If my high school try-outs consisted of that, we never would have won, because my best players were not the fastest, hardest throwing, but had heart and great work ethic more so than the others. So tryouts for a "showcase" team consists of 5 throws from wherever, 10 swings, throwing TO a radar gun, or against a stop watch, and pay big $ to play with someone who aced a test, but doesn't normally study. No thanks. A much more thorough workout and the creme will always rise to the top.

Pro-style workouts need to be left to the pros or even D1 guys who are actually comparing guys who come so close in every aspect of the game, that one little subtle difference is enough. But for freshman, sophmores, jrs., come on you can do better. If you seen them play, and would like a gauge afterwards, OK, but at least know they can play.

First post, but have been reading for a while, and would like some thoughts so maybe i can see things a little differently.

 

Preaching to the choir, my man. Unless your kid is in that less than 1% that a scout just cannot miss because he has incredible physical tools, then just forget the ID camp and save your money.

 

it has its place

the pro-style workout definitely has its place. it does a good job of gauging players against standards (60 times of under 7, pop times around or under 2, the magic of the 90+ fastball) as well as against their peers.

does it measure heart, tenacity, and other intangibles. not as well. but after being around a while you can pick up on this stuff some.

i would imagine high school teams, mine included, covet some intrinsic values...work ethic, grit, heart, desire, etc. those gritty guys are glue guys. they keep teams together and make teams competitive and often successful. but that is within the team concept.

the pro-style workout is an individual assessment. a player shows his abilitiy at the workout and then the scouts or recruiters will try to watch him play. when they come to watch, they get to see in the intangibles

 

So are you saying that if I train for a pro-style workout, and make an unbelievable showing at one of these ID camps, then good things will follow, like a snowball. My son desires to go to college and actually has some talent, but seems to me by aceing the workout is the way to go. If he does ace the workout, will scouts ACTUALLY come watch him, or will he be well on his way to college? He's a pretty good player, but has gone unseen by no one but ID personel, or showcase coaches using this method. If this is the case, then we'll be at every ID camp instead of playing until we ace it. Just doesn't add up, the pro-style workout. Just trying to get some feed back from someone who uses this method. LegionPost46, you seem like me, I agree I see some things as well, but not what we need to see in freshman, sophmores or even jrs. The top 1% like BaseballMan said, other than that we're wasting money.

 

The only bad thing about the 60 is a stop watch.Unless you are using the laser how good is the time?I am not saying that some guys are not pretty good with a watch but it is not as good as the laser.I think if show case baseball is going to put the 60 so high on the list they need to use the laser then you will know what your 60 really is.Just my thoughts.

 

Thanks for posting NVINGS3. There were alot of good points and questions that you brought up. I believe you will receive alot of different answers as well.

When I look back at the last 6-7 years, obviously I have seen alot of changes in summer and fall baseball. I never minded the pro workouts. It is one of the better ways to watch players in a large group---and see the one's that seperate themselves from others. It is just one small tool in gathering information-certainly not the most important one.

There are so many variables in one's decision in what steps to take, but I have learned this. The most important first step is to get an evaluation of your son that you trust from a person that you respect. I have seen many people spend money in areas that are not suited for their son; be that a particular Showcase camp or a showcase team. I have witnessed families spend thousands of dollars to have their son attend certain tournaments or certain teams and the bottom line is the coaches that are attending those events will have no interest in your son.

As far as tryouts, ID camps and other things that garner interest, those things occur for the younger players for obvious reasons. But for the older guys that join the better showcase teams, they have been followed for sometime. When they are recruited, their performance is not a mystery.

There are so many paths to take and many of the paths lead into a dead end or wasteful spending. But I want to reiterate that to make the right decisions you first need to know what level of talent your son is....and what level of commitment to baseball he has.

To be honest, I brushed just a few things to consider--in reality, I could discuss this for hours.

 

I can see where scouts get some good from the pro-style workout but as baseballman said, you're preaching to the choir. The whole process is frustrating.

Just recently players all around the area got invites to the Top Gun showcase/ID camp in Las Vegas, or any other event claiming they are special and so is your child. Some think they are special to get one. Heck, they buy some list from a showcase type event you attended previously and mail you an invitation and tell you how special you are to be able to fly across the country and drop $500.00 to workout in front of coaches you'll probably never see again. But it's great for our egos. Coach 27 had a good post on this the other day, BTW.

Braves makes a great point about identifying what talent your son has. Good luck with that one however. I'm still trying to figure it out. It's hard to find an objective, unbiased opinion. As a parent you want to be realistic about their talents, not inflating their egos only to meet reality later. At the same time, you don't want to discourage them by telling them their dreams are not possible. I wish you luck Viking. BTW, our kids have probably played against each other.

 

Very good point. I would never like to see a young player's enthusiasm ruined by a careless comment. The point I want to clarify is to have a reasonable idea of talent level vs an inflated one. It doesn't make sense financially for a player to attend a National (individual) showcase if he is not going to be recruited nationally.

There are many very good showcases regionally and statewide that would be more prudent...and with those, you need to be selective.

The one area you have to be careful is not to be caught up in all of the mailouts you receive...including from colleges. It can be exciting sometimes receiving info packets from schools and prominent organizations, but treat them the way they are presented. Is it a form letter? Or is it a signed letter addressed personally?

Starting in the sophomore year, right through the summer that he graduates, can be exciting times- nerve wracking, disappointments and joyous--just like riding a roller coaster. It's not for the feint of heart.

 

What year in HS is your son?

 

Pro Style Workout

If I am a showcase coach Im going to put on an ID camp to ID players that I feel have the tools to play for my team and help me win. And you are going to be the type of player that college coaches are going to recruit.

Im going to run a pro style workout to measure the tools of the players that show up. This is going to give me an immediate idea of who has outstanding tools that play at my level.

If I am a college coach Im going to attend a pro style workout to ID the kids that have the tools needed to play at my level. Im going to attend showcase tournements to see if that kid I IDed at the workout can put those tools to use in game situations against quality competition.

The tools measured at a PS workout.

Speed
Arm Stength
Fielding Ability
Ability to hit - consistent hard contact
Power

If you show tools you will get looks. If you show you can put those tools to use in game situations you will get offers.

If you do not show tools you will not get looks. You now must find a way to show that you can play the game at a high level even though you do not have tools that make you stand out above the average player.

There are players that do not have outstanding tools that are very good players. Your path is going to be alot different than the guy that has outstanding tools and can play. This is why it is so important that people not feel that they have to do what everyone else is doing. What is a good situation for one kid may not be a good situation for another.

Braves and I along with some other baseball guys are in the process of putting together a "Player evaluation and college placement service". This service will be about giving a player a true unbiased evaluation of his or her ability. This will consist of a 2 hour personal work out in front of the staff. Then you will be evaluated in game situations (hs) (summer and fall). The staff will then assist you in college placement based on your ability and your academic situation. This will be a 24 hour a day 7 day a week service. Where you can call and ask questions about where the process is at. We will work for you and with you to help your child achieve his dream of playing at the next level.

Are you waisting your money going to Showcase workouts if you do not have outstanding tools that will cause you to be noticed? YES. Does this mean you can not play at the next level? NO. Do people need help? YES.