Question

Just curious, what are your opinions about the coach calling pitches? It seems to be very prevalent in high scholl ball, and is a standard practice in college ball.

I've watched games at both levels, and I admit, the coach is more experienced with the game. However, I have found that many coaches are rather predictable with their calls. I have seen a coach call for an off speed pitch when the count requires it, when I know that the pitcher is a flame thrower who can make the ball move different ways depending on the delivery. I've also witnessed the coach calling for heat from a junk baller when the best the pitcher can muster is 80. Last week I watched a coach call for mostly off speed pitches when the opposing team is notorious for bring able to hit curves and changes, not the heat.

Probably a lame question, but, as a life-long fan just now starting to understand and appreciate some of the intricacies, I'm trying to decipher strategies and enjoy what unfolds.

I know that part of the fun of watching a game is disparraging the umps and the coach's decisions, but, as has often been said, knowledge is power - I'm trying to expand my knowledge.

Any help?

 

This is a situation that depends entirely on the coach and pitcher involved.

In this past week of tournament play, there have been a lot of JV callups that have seen action on the mound. In that case, I would expect the coach to take some pressure off of the pitcher by calling the pitches. The same can be true for under-classmen on the mound that have some varsity experience. By not having to call the game, they can concentrate on the execution of the pitch.

After a certain point, coaches start giving a little freedom to their pitchers. They may call for a curve, but allow the pitcher to shake off that pitch and throw a change-up instead. They call for an outside fastball, but allow the pitcher to shake it off and go inside instead. This is a developing process. It allows the pitcher some freedom but still takes some pressure off of them.

With a lop-sided score, it's the best time to see exactly how a pitcher can manage a game and call his own. Whether up big or down big, most coaches turn pitch selection entirely over to the pitcher in this case, in order to gage their ability at calling their own game.

Once you have a experienced senior on the mound, he generally calls his own pitches at most schools.

BUT not enough emphasis is made in H.S. on the role of the catcher in this situation. The catcher is the one calling the game, the pitcher is shaking off signs. If your catcher is not capable of starting the process and evaluating hitters, what the pitcher is throwing, etc. , you will end up shaking him off the entire game. Too many H.S. catchers start every sequence with a fast ball and make the pitcher start shaking them off.

You HAVE to have a good catcher behind the plate for the pitcher to manage the game. He has to learn the pitchers, their preferences, their "stuff" and be able to read hitters. If you don't have a good one, leave it in the coaches hands. If you have a great one, leave it to the catcher. The pitcher has the final say, but, when you have a pitcher & catcher on the same page, it's a joy to watch.

Both have to learn the process and both have to be ready in order for this to work well. If one or the other isn't ready, leave it to the coach.

 

Well, I'm the biggest advocate on the board about Pitchers pitching...which entails "thinking", not throwing.

I understand where the coaches are coming from..they want to control the game...but a part of developing a pitcher should be done in HS. Allowing him to understand what to throw and when.

A GOOD pitcher is always thinking;

1. where is he standing at the plate

2. what kind of swing

3. is he getting around on the fastball

4. can he hit a curve

5. is he loading up on his back leg

6. is he deep in the box

7. what did he do the last at bat..the last game..

8. did I start him with a fastball or curve

9. am I getting predictable in my pitching patterns

10. How is the command of my pitches today


...these are SOME of the things that should be going through the mind of a pitcher....but when the coach calls pitches, this seems to be ignored.

The one area that has become laughable..

A coach calls the wrong pitch at the wrong time and the batter goes yard...their favorite response..." He missed his spot"...puhleeeze!!

Give the game back to the kids..they are the ones playing it.

 

I'll have to agree with Braves on this. I think it's a more interesting game when the pitcher and his catcher call their own pitches and manage the game. Sure, they make mistakes in their calls, but they don't always hit the spot they want either, the result is often the same. Making mistakes is the best tool for learning, not just in baseball but in life as well. It's just a game, let the kids play.

 

I agree with both of you.
I know in a game last week my team had a kid down in the count throwing fastballs. The kid wasnt close to getting the bat on the ball, then the pitching coach called a change or curve , i forget which it was a the kid launched it over the right field fence bringing in 3 runs.
I have coached a few tournament teams and i called some pitches part of the time , but i also let the catcher and pitcher work together . I felt they needed to learn and if they messed up it worked to the good because they learned something.
Sometimes i called pitches if i thought it was too much pressure on the kids.
That same game i mentioned above , our team also had 3 kids that played alot off ball with and against the other team for a few years now. The pitching instructor wouldnt listen to the guys telling him where to pitch the other players. Not that it would have helped , but you never know.

 

I agree with all of you guys. There are situations where I totally understand a coach calling pitches and I totally agree with coaches calling pitchouts and pick-offs, but it is becoming too common beginning at the lowest levels of baseball for coaches to assume it is their job to call all pitches.

This tends to make the pitcher and especially the catcher ignorant bystanders. I have coached pitchers who when they find out we are not going to tell them what to throw every pitch are somewhat upset because, like most teenagers, they would rather not have the responsibility of throwing the wrong pitch. While others use the fact that the coach is calling pitches as an excuse for when something goes bad.

Too often, pitchers who have all pitches called for them from the dugout pay little attention to the things that are essential to becoming an effective pitcher. If I know I have no input on the next pitch then why should I care where this guy hit the ball last time or notice where his is standing in the box. I am just a machine throwing the coach's pitch.

From the beginning of the season, the coach should get with the catchers and pitchers and give them his strategy regarding pitch calling. Here the coach will give them the absolutes of his strategy such as first pitch or 0-2 counts. Otherwise, it is just like any other part of coaching. You tell them what you expect and give the general blueprint and let them go out and play the game. This will get those players much more involved in the game, make them smarter players and force your pitchers and catchers to work together.

I strongly feel coaches should begin the season allowing his catchers to call the games with instructions to look over whenever they are in doubt of the proper call. If the coach sees the catcher is making bad decisions then you adjust your system but I don't think it should be a given that every pitch of every game should come from the dugout.

This opinion comes from a former catcher and the only catcher turned pitching coach I know of in the pros, Dave Duncan with the Cardinals, feels the same way. He works with the St. Louis catchers as much as he does with the pitchers so that the only thing that comes from the dugout are special plays. The only time pitches are called from the dugout is if the catcher wants a suggestion.

I'm partial to catchers, but I don't think it's coincidental that the last 7 World Series have been won by managers who are former catchers!!

 

I agree with all of you...so far...

 

Intimidator, you have a great coach in Thompson, so don't doubt him. I find that most high school catchers don't understand the game well enough to notice a guys swing while catching. Therefore, I can totally understand why a coach would want to call the game at the high school level.

 

I agree with both sides on this one.

Preferably, you have a great catcher and the pitcher is knowledgable as well, so you leave it to those 2. However, I have been around pitchers who had all the physical talent in the world, but had it not been for the baseball in their hand, might not have known what size ball to throw, much less what pitch. Then again, this could be because there pitches were always called from the dugout prior to this, so they didn't understand the situations as well. Still, if you have a good catcher he can handle this pitcher for you. I don't catch or pitch (just a measly 3B with mediocre fielding skills and a rainbow arm) so I'm not biased when I say this. The catcher is the real "smart guy" on the field.

All in all, I say leave it to the pitcher/catcher combo if possible. If the pitcher just can't handle it, and you have a good catcher, then use the "NEVER shake me off" rule, and let the catcher run the show. If neither of these apply, then unfortunately call it from the dugout, and go searching for a catcher in your downtime.

 

BUDMAN , Thompson dont call the pitches at Kannapolis.
but i do know most of the pitchers are smart enough to know what should be thrown . Like a previous post said, when do they learn , and if they know the coach is calling the pitches all they are is a robot doing whats told of them.
It is a poor way to teach the game most of the time.