South Meck Fall Baseball Workouts

part 2

Your 5/13 post states: “He has done a great job at SM building a nice facility, but he has not improved one player there, and that concerns me as a person who works with athletes on a daily basis.” If you truly work with athletes on a daily basis as you state here, you must realize what a ridiculous statement that is. Some players will show greater improvement with different coaches and no coach is the perfect fit for every player, coach Bagwell included. Example: Steve Alford could thrive while playing for Bob Knight, while Larry Bird could not last the fall semester of his freshman year, yet both were similar, quiet shy kids from small Indiana towns. No matter what a person’s opinion of Bob Knight is, neither case is an indictment or confirmation that Bob Knight can or can not coach. You also may disagree with what Hal teaches, but there is no way you can state that all his players do not improve. The success that his players (and teams) have had, and will continue to have, both at the high school level and beyond and the confidence that collegiate coaches and professional scouts have in his players to the point they continually come back to not only look at his front line players but even those that play behind others on his teams because, as they have said, that they are sure that they (the players) understand what it takes to play at a high level and can be contributors over time at the next level, clearly indicates that Hal is preparing these players for success.

After falling to Ashbrook in the opening round of the state playoffs your post of 5/16 claims that: “But poor coaching has cost them again. Bagwell was saving Morris for next game, most little league coaches know you take one game at a time, there is no tomorrow if you do not win today.” Ryan is a wonderful pitcher and it was an absolute joy to have the opportunity to watch him throw over the last four seasons. It was obvious he has some special talents that hopefully will land him in the majors some day. He may have won that day, but the talent of most of the state playoff teams does not guarantee an automatic win for any pitcher, but hindsight is 20/20.
As far as high school pitchers go, to say that using Matt Andress was a poor choice is another ludicrous statement. In their high school careers, Andress had a lower ERA, (under 1.00) better win/loss percentage, and nearly identical BA against and Ks as Ryan. He had pitched in the crucial playoff situations, getting the toughest outs at the ends of games all throughout the 2005 run. One factor in deciding to use Andress in the opener was the way South usually lost in 2006 was by putting extra runners on base, because the pitchers actually gave up so few hits. Without the extra runners, the odds that teams would string 4-5 hits together to create a big inning was remote, even at the state playoff level. Andress had walked 3 batters in 70 innings in 2006 and nine for his entire varsity career! Unfortunately for South, Ashbrook was better that night. Balls that were normally outs, were finding holes while shots hit by Sabre batters were finding gloves and Ashbrook made the plays they needed to win, South did not. But that’s what is special about baseball, especially in the playoffs, the best team does not always win. I did not see any post last year saying that even though the Matts (Andress and Layman) out dueled Madison Bumgardner 3-1 in the opening round of the playoffs leading to a state championship appearance that it was poor coaching, and that they should have used Ryan. Do you think that maybe that could have had an influence on the decision to use Matt? Ultimately the decision to not use Ryan was not a poor decision, just a decision that did not work out for the Sabres.

5/17 – “I just think that the SM coach is the most over-rated coach in NC. He is leaving his alma-matta to coach a new school where all the talent will be going. A mediocre coach can win with mediocre players, but a mediocre coach cannot win with great players, which is what SM had over the years.” I never have seen coaches’ rankings, so I am not sure how you come up with Hal being overrated. More likely, your fear is that many other colleagues, players, and fans have a favorable opinion of Hal’s program. Look at what Hal did at South in his 10 year tenure as head coach: Playing in one of the tougher leagues in 4A he has won over 70% of his games, three SW4A titles, three SW4A tournament titles, and two West Regional championships leading to state championship appearances. This was nearly a 10% increase (from 61.4%) in winning margin over the previous nine year period at South. A period that saw two of South’s best teams, going 22-3 in 1988 and 27-3 while winning the state 4A title in 1989. He did not have a losing season at South. In that time period, exactly one team (Rose 4 times) has made more state championship appearances than South. So if winning games is the standard that you are using for “rating,” then Hal must be placed somewhere near the high end of your scale. Maybe it is the percentage of players that are going on to play collegiate ball you are looking at. Or is it the number of players drafted? Maybe we should look at hours spent on preparation for the seasons, practices, games, grounds, recruitment of his players, player development, and professional development. Once again I would match his dedication and record in any of these areas with any coach you would like to select in the state as your representative as a good coach. How about the number of times he has answered his phone in the middle of the night and got out of bed to go help a player of his, former or otherwise, that was in need. I can guarantee that percentage “Ranks” with the best of coaches as well! If fact, the only area I see low is in the disgruntled parent of a former player nearly a decade ago who still can not get over that Hal did not evaluate his son’s skill level as a player who could help his team most by being on the field more frequently. As to your comment about mediocre coaches winning with mediocre players is another example of your fool hardy statements. Mediocre coach and good coaches win with good players, period. Any reputable coach will give you the same response. Sometimes mediocre players do beat the better players in baseball (I believe I just saw the KC Royals beat the Yankees last night) but not at a winning percentage rate. If things are some what equal at the scholastic level (feeder programs, etc.), the talent level is cycletive because you should not have recruiting influences. If you look at a long enough period of time, you can start to identify the better coaches. The poor coaches ever reach the high peaks, even when they have the talent. The coaches in the middle ride the waves up and down, while the top coaches find a way to still be in the upper echelon (usually through talent development and preparation) during the low periods, and have more frequent high times. Looking how a coach performs (good or bad as far as W/L) in any short period does not give a true indication of effectiveness. Hal’s record over the long haul, without question, shows that he is deserves to be considered a top coach at the high school level.

 

Part 3

7/27 - “I do know a lot about the program, I went to SM, had a son play there several years ago, a little before Braves son did, but I still follow the program closely, and believe it or not, care about it. I do not jump ship. I bleed red and black, and always will. You may not like me, or my comments, but I speak from the heart and say what others are afraid to say, but want to” . . . “I just hope, with all my heart that SM found a coach that can truly teach the game. A coach that is not in it just for a little extra paycheck.” . .


There was a recent thread on this board about the importance that coaches be teachers in the school, and without question there is no way a non staff member can have the ever deepening relationships with his players without the daily contact that teachers have with the students in non “sports” time. Those relationships can play critical roles in the student’s life if they wish. Does that mean they will be better players or win more games? That is debatable. While Hal is proud of the moniker “coach” that he wears, it is without question that Hal Bagwell is more proud that he is a teacher of the game, and all that the definition of teacher encompasses. Trying to win, and preparing to win, and playing to win are important to him while the games are going. One of the most frustrating aspects of coaching for top coaches, including Hal, is that the players don’t always burn with the passion for the games that they do. They all use different techniques to help the athlete try to find the fire. Sometimes they help the athlete find that they don’t have what is necessary to continue to competing at that level. But when the games are over, Hal has transmitted to his players that there is more to this business of high school baseball than wins and losses. Watch his teams at the end of a season and it is obvious his players understand that. And I don’t believe, and sure hope, your comment about doing this for an extra paycheck is not pointed towards Hal, for even you must realize the literal pennies per hour Hal makes for being a head coach is meaningless to him. He does it for the love of the game and the love of his players.

7/27 “Sbelle, I hope it did not strike a nerve, if it did, sit back and enjoy this last year with your son, or you could be on here like me years later, griping about your coach.” 8/14 “Everyone knows i think the best thing to happen to the SM program is Bagwell leaving”


Finally from my heart let me say what others are thinking: I am tired of you coming onto this board with a single agenda of Hal Bagwell bashing. We understand that you had a less than positive experience with your son and Hal. This has led you to have a skewed vision of Hal and his program. I am sorry that you have been disappointed with your experience with Hal.

This board, I thought, was about promoting high school baseball, in a positive manor. I see that you do have positive things to say about others on this board, why don’t you just stick to that and not try so hard to say disparaging things about Hal. While I believe you most likely do not care, it just does not make you look very intelligent trying to pick at a coach that most others feel does an outstanding job with his kids and teams. It also makes your other posts less credible. It is one thing to question strategy, etc. and other thing to fabricate fiction to satisfy your ego. You have crossed the line, especially in this location.

South Meck was fortunate to have Hal as their coach for 10 seasons. He left the program better than he found it. I, like you, hope the new coach surpasses him in every way. That would guarantee better baseball for this area and the student athletes to be. And it would only motivate Hal even more to improve his teams. Only time will tell. Kell is fortunate to have him for the coming years. He will lay a strong foundation for others to use in the future. I have no illusions that Hal is the best possible coach anyone could have, but I do know, that he would do a more than creditable job wherever he was and they would be fortunate to have a man who truly cared about teaching his players and team and would know that he will work to the best of his ability to make that place the best it he could make it.

If for whatever reason, your son were in need of Hal’s assistance and called for that help, he would be there. Sadly, I don’t think I could say the reciprocal would be true.

 

glen lake

Thanks Hal for replying, I was picking up my nephew from football practice at AK. I will give you this Hal, you do get results as far as a great facility goes. You have already done a great job getting a bad field in great shape at AK. While I am not a fan of your coaching skills, I do admire your love of the game and for the most part, your players. However, at some point in your life, help players other than the ones that can help you.

 

This is a board that promotes players. I am extremely uncomfortable when a coach, any coach, gets attacked. I don't mind the second guessing...that goes with the territory, but if one does not like a coach, I would prefer that you keep that to oneself.

Honker's, we have discussed this privately about the purpose of this board. I would appreciate that you respect my wishes and use the "Private Messages" to convey any personal dislikes.

Thank you in advance

 

anyone ; football guys

matos23 or anyone in general: what about guys that play football in the fall & baseball in spring. I guess they don't participate in the fall workouts?

 

that would be correct. as of right now most of our fall workouts are taking place right after our school day ends on monday tuesday thursday and i belive friday. wednesday is for now going to remain an open field day that takes place later in the evening. we have very few players that play both sports but for the few exceptions they are strictly focusing on football at the moment. this in not a problem with the coach due to the fact that he is on our football staff and is aware of and knows their situation. but id like to restate the point that we do have very few players who play both sports so its really not much of an issue

 

Give him a chance.

I looked on the NCHSAA website at state champions all the way back as far as they kept records and I didn't see any years where South Meck was listed. Maybe this new guy IS aware of the tradition at South Meck and realizes that a change in that tradition is needed. Give the guy a chance!

 

I don't believe anyone has anything against the new coach. I believe everyone connected with SM is pulling for him.

The concern people had was with the selection process. It was strange to say the least...but it's behind us now and the SabreNation will rally behind the new coach

 

ok

I've been reading all these posts about all this SM tradition, & I wondered the same thing. so no State titles?? maybe the new guy can start a new tradition; sounds like a great opportunity.

 

I think most of our posters would agree....State title doesn't necessary validate tradition or a great program. We can name a lot of good coaches and programs that don't have "State Champion" by their names....