South Meck - South Caldwell etc

You know since on another thread there seems to be alot of discussion about great programs etc let me just say this. Just because a program does or does not win state championships has nothing to do with it. In my opinion a great program is the following.

#1- Takes the talent available and reaches the highest level of play possible. That may be a .500 record or a conference titile or maybe even a state championship.

#2- Teaches the players the game of baseball. Through teaching the game of baseball it also teaches life lessons that the players can take with them for the rest of their lives. Every player will put up the spikes one day. The lessons learned will never be put away in the closet but will be used everyday in life.

#3- Helps players that have shown the work ethic and desire to play at the next level achieve that dream. It does not matter what level they achieve be it D-1 or Community College. Using baseball as a means of motivation to achieve that goal is fine with me.

#4- Gives the players a home that they can come back to when their playing days are over. Every player that loves the game wants a baseball home that they can come back to when the playing days are over. Wether it be to hang out and just talk or sit and watch practice or maybe come back and coach etc. A program that is great will always have those former players coming back.

There are some outstanding programs in this state that have not won State Championships or not many. They are still great programs. There are programs in this state that have won state championships that many of you would cringe at the thought of your son playing at. Trust me! I could name them but there is no point of that. I have read many posts about South Meck and South Caldwell. The fact is these programs are very respected across this state by HS coaches and college coaches. There is no doubt that South Caldwell has to be the favorite to win the state title this spring. If they do then great for them. And if they dont , it is still a heck of a program with some outstanding players.

 

great post coach

 

COACH 27

Very well put.

 

Luigiboy, although you made some good points, I'm glad that you deleted your post.

If you have a concern or problem with the way the board is run...just PM a moderator and they will be glad to discuss this with you off the board.

 

luigiboy I'm curious

luigiboy...I read your deletion, for the sake of argument...What is your definition of a "Great Program"? Just curious...

 

great program

My definition of a great program would be a program that finishes well above.500 year in and year out and makes the playoffs year in and year out. I understand that even the greatest of programs in every sport will have a down year from time to time, but for a great program those years are few and far between. A great program would not only have sniffed the promised land by making the playoffs every year, but they will have visited it as well by winning a few state championships. I also think a great program is made by having a head coach that is in place for many years, not 3-5 years then move on to the next guy.
I guess maybe my opinion of a great program is different from alot of peoples. I just feel that the title of "great" is earned by finishing at the pinnacle of whatever endeavor you are undertaking and in high school sports that is state championships. I also don't really buy into the statement that a great program is defined by the life lessons that a kid gets from baseball. It's the parents job to do that. The life lessons learned from sports can be learned on a sub-par team, such as sportsmanship and teamwork.
I was just kind of offended by the term "great" being used. If the program that brought up this argument is great, what should we call the programs that have all the same accomplishments plus state championship wins?

 

luigiboy

I agree with most of what you say here...but how many programs in the state meet 100% of your criteria?

Although we do agree that most people look at successful programs in the "Wins and Loss" column....that are many other factors that make up a successful programs than the Team record at the end of the year.

 

I was with you all the way until this point. Again, there is only one school in 4A that meets this criteria (Greenville Rose). Instead of great, how about highly regarded and well respected across the state.

and since you were concerned, the reason that thread was closed was not about the discussion you were entering, but because a coach was being personally attacked, rebutted, and hurt feelings developed. That is not the purpose of this board and never will be.

Perhaps, if you had to answer the many PM's that I, as well as other moderators do (as well as phone calls) when these type posts are generated, you would have a better understanding of the decisions that are made. There was a lot of good information in that thread as well. That's the reason it was locked and not deleted.

In closing, I never mind disagreements, as long as they are civil. They make great discussions and your posts had nothing to do with the locking of that other thread. I'm sorry if you felt that was the case. But here is a thread for you to continue your thoughts.

 

There is so much more to having a great high school program than winning. Sometimes that is difficult for others outside the team to wrestle with because all they see are the scores in the paper or record book and did not have the oppertunity to evaluate anything else.

I like what Coach 27 is saying about a place to come home (his other points too, especially about not all teams that win state championships are great programs). For me, that would be at the top. While it was important to me that other coaches and teams saw that our team competed correctly and to the best of our ability, it was most important what the people involved with our program thought. For if they believed that were part of something special, that would last forever. That is why they made the extra effort. That is why the next down the line wanted to be part of the team. That is why they return, regardless if they had won anything.

A sense of ownership and pride in what they are part of is what helps make great high school programs. We love winning and absolutely try our best to do so. We demanded that our players practiced a routine of championship caliber, even if their talent level did not translate into championships. In return, as coaches, we do everything in our power to make those players feel that they are part of that special program. It is an honor to coach these young men.

It took many years before we won titles but the participants of our program new that it was great before that ever happened. We have been fortunate to have won state titles, but much more proud of the program that we have rather than the titles it has won. For when the titles came, it surely was on the backs of others that had gone before, those that believed in our team concept and passed that pride on down the line.

Competing is what is important for those that partake. I know my most precious team only finished fourth in their league, but without question their effort to do that was as great as any champions we have had and I can assure you they felt that too, for not all victories are in the box score. There was no way anyone away from our program could know the physical limitations that had to be overcome to accomplish that. As James Mitchner in his book Sports in America writes about his youth playing days: “yet in our own little world we were champions . . . walked a little taller, a little prouder . . . and because of that fact, radiated with an inner confidence that has never left me.” Players of great programs feel that, win or lose.

There are now many “showcase” teams that seek out the best talent they can find to play together. Many have excellent baseball people working with them. Some of these teams win most of there games and even “championships.” But I believe that you would find that most of the players on these teams would say that playing school baseball is uniquely different, especially at locations that as Braves said are “highly regarded and well respected across the state.”

I would be interested to hear what some of the players opinions are on this subject.