Sprint vs. Distance Running (effects on pitching velo)

In an interesting blog from Eric Cressey on "why pitchers loose velocity". I liked his reason #7 Cumulative effect of distance running

This 2008 study might be the greatest research that has ever been performed on baseball players - mostly because it reaffirmed my awesomeness by proving me right: Noncompatibility of power and endurance training among college baseball players.

These researchers divided a collegiate pitching staff into two groups of eight pitchers over the course of a season, and each group did everything identically – except the running portion of their strength and conditioning programs. Three days per week, the “sprint” group did 10-30 sprints of 15-60m with 10-60s rest between bouts. The endurance group performed moderate-to-high intensity jogging or cycling 3-4 days per week for anywhere from 20-60 minutes.

Over the course of the season, the endurance group’s peak power output dropped by an average of 39.5 watts while the sprinting group increased by an average of 210.6 watts. You still want to distance run?

Of course, there are still the tired old arguments of "it flushes out my arm" (much better ways to do that), it clears my head (go see a psychologist), "it keeps my weight down" (eat less crap, and do more lifting and sprinting), and "it helps me bounce back better between starts" (then why are so many players in MLB living on anti-inflammatories?). The system is broke, but instead of fixing it based on logic, many pitching coaches continue to change the oil on a car with no wheels.

(for the full article go to...http://www.ericcressey.com/reasons-for-decreased-pitching-velocity
Note: Eric Cressey trains MLB and Minor league pitchers and players like Kevin Youklis, #1st round draft pick Tyler Beade (vanderbilt) writes for many magazines and is a record holding power lifter).

I'm curious what baseball people on TBR believe? Sprints or Long Distance.

 

Let's be honest. There are many tests run by every pitching guru out there: Tom House, Dr Marshall, PT therapists, etc., etc. They all have different theories on what's the best.

When one reads all of the different theories on the best way to get the best pitching performance, one is left totally confused because they go from one spectrum to the other.

There are certain things I believe in, while there are others that take a different approach in developing training for pitchers. They all make it sound simple and use facts skewed to their theories. I won't enter into a discussion what is best because frankly, it's can be a bit confusing.

But I can say this as a fact: The days before all of the current year long baseball, pitchers rarely had arm problems annd surgeries were even more rare. I just heard a stat on TV where Warren Spahn had more complete games after 40 yo, than the total of all complete games of current pitchers. I'm not sure how far back they went for those stats, but it does make you wonder why pitchers in past years were so much more durable...and it had nothing to do with workout regimens, unless you include tipping beers as an exercise.

If you had a conversation with all of the pitching coaches (whom you have to believe study the art of pitching and all of the things that go into it), it would be difficult to get 2 coaches to agree on the same thing. You figure if pitching coaches aren't on the same page, pitching guru's aren't on the same page, physical therapist deviate from each other's theories; how can any one else form the right conclusion?

I'm not saying that you are wrong. I'm just saying I'm confused in whom to believe.

 

Agree it's confusing

Agree that pitching workouts and programs can be confusing. Alot of gurus make promises and insist they are right. I have several MLB and college workout programs and there have some things in common. ( lowerbody lifts, core, limited upperbody lift, dynamic warmup before, static stretch after)

I was trying to simplify the question to just running-sprinting vs distance . Which type do you do?

Incidentally our local middle school coach made the team run 1 minute laps around the field to prepare them for high school. Because the HS coach makes his team run 1:15 field laps. Don't remember too many 1 minute plays in baseball. Most take 4-8 seconds and pitch takes less than 2 seconds. (guess I gave away my position)

On the arm care discussion. I ran into a dad this weekend whose son is playing junior legion and travel ball (on two travel ball rosters). Ug. Playing for multiple teams simultaneously and playing year round is a bad idea IMHO. Worse than high pitch counts. So no "down time"(overuse) is primary culprit.

 

I received the conditioning program for an ACC school and they advocate a 20+ minute run the day after pitching then three days of poles and then two days of sprints in between starts. In a book that I got from Dr. Andrews they recommend running/biking for 20 minutes after pitching and then alternating daily between sprinting (10x60 yards) and biking/running for 15-30 minutes. When the Andrews book talks about distance running it is more in the context of building endurance rather than strength. Seems like the current conventional wisdom is more of a blend of the two rather than either/or.

 

Todd Coffey's Running Program

Let's just take a shot in the dark and say it is..........neither!

 

Sprints vs Distance Running for pitchers? Sprints winning. Everytime. I don't care what an ACC school does. Sprints are better than distance for pitchers.

The problem I have with posts like this is people don't understand the main point. Sprinting is better than distance running for conditioning pitchers. However, a lot of people read these kind of posts and think: "Okay, I can never jog poles."

Note that the study used "moderate-to-high intensity jogging or cycling 3-4 days per week for anywhere from 20-60 minutes."

Occasionally mixing in some light jogging isn't gonna kill you. Personally, I've found it usually allows me to increase the workload I can put on my legs on other days by speeding the recovery cycle.

Let me repeat: Light jogging can be used to help speed the recovery cycle.

This is not: "moderate-to-high intensity jogging or cycling 3-4 days per week for anywhere from 20-60 minutes." I'm talking about some light not-too-taxing jogging. A lot of people describe this as "talking pace," where you are jogging at a light enough pace that you aren't panting and can speak, to some extent.

 

Bingo ...xpectus6 gets it.

Bingo...sprint for conditioning and light jog/cycle for recovery. Nolan Ryan rode stationary bike while icing arm and got in the weight room usually within 12 hours of pitching a game. Allows max recovery time. Long hard runs that aren't sprint just don't help. IMO.

Xpectus6 had me at "hello"

 

Winning pitching workout

Drink lots of beer, smoke cigarettes, then drink some whiskey. Stretch while putting on uniform only. No running, ever!!

Sincerely, David Wells