Too much emphasis on velocity?

Another Reason

I'll tell you what.

Another reason pitching is "weak" in MLB is that the darn strike zone keeps getting smaller and smaller! AND I'm a former Catcher and Hitter not a Pitcher! But it's the TRUTH!

We are now 1 ball below the belt and All Ball at the Knees and with K-Zone there are only a few guys who haven't been "singled out" for calling strikes off the plate. The strike zone is effectively 17x17 and I'm not exaggerating (much). Last night the 8th and 9th Innings of the Braves/Reds was unbelievable! Both guys hitting spots on the corners and knees and not even getting a rise out of "Blue." I actually think the curveball is worse! Because it starts out higher it better break all the way to mid-thigh or forget it. They are not going to call a belt high curve ball for a strike. No matter what!

On the other hand with the movement and velocity today's guys have if we went back to the letters and knees and a ball off the black on the outside we'd be watching 1-0 games and 1/3 of the guys in the starting lineup would be looking up at the Mendoza Line and thinking twice before they send their suits to the Dry Cleaners!

 

Nice discussion here, my 2 cents.

I had a difficult time understanding why 90+ was so important in recruiting a pitcher. My aurgument is that throwing 90 no more makes a pitcher than running a killer 60 time makes you a good position player. I was always tempted to take a track star who had never played baseball to a showcase event and let him blaze a hot 60 just to see what kind of response he would get.
The "we can teach him to pitch if he's got the arm" to me is a non starter. Sure they can get a 90+ thrower to throw a strike, but in game conditions with runners on and the game on the line, can he make the pitch?
I poised the question of velocity to a college recruiter as we went through the process last fall. His answer was this: If a coach signs a kid that throws 90 and he busts, well the coach has a defense. "Hey he throws 90, I can't pass up a kid that throws that hard." But if he signs a kid that doesn't hit the magic number and he busts then that's a direct indictment of the coaches ability to assess talent.ie " What are you doing signing a kid that only throws mid 80's you should know he can't pitch at this level" and there is no defense.
Obviously, the other side is if the mid 80's pitcher works out, the coach is a guru where as if the fireballer works out he was a "can't miss" any way.
So there you go.
What's a coach to do.

 

Could not agree more...

with AGYK. Exactly as you say it.

 

El Capitan

Cappy,
I feel the love. This ain't my first Rodeo!

 

To much emphasis on speed? In a word NO. Always heard you can't teach speed. To a degree that is true. No matter what you do a person will only throw so hard. If you have the ability to throw hard you are ahead of the game.

 

If you have the ability to throw hard, then you better be able to "pitch" too. Throwers may be recruited but many end up instead just sitting with a clipboard and charting pitches for one of their teammates on the mound. I've seen it happen. A college coach that wants to win isn't going to give many innings to a thrower that can't pitch.

And for those of you that think control, savvy, poise, ball movement, etc.. is something that can be easily taught. You might want to think again. The really good "pitchers" have been working on all that stuff since they were 10 years old. So, the thrower that doesn't have anything but a fastball may light up the radar gun but may also end up getting a lot of splinters at the next level until he learns to pitch.

So, in a nutshell, it all works itself out in the end.

If I was a college coach I would be very happy to recruit a "pitcher" that could hit 84 - 86 on the radar AND has ball movement and has command of 3 pitches.... after he gets to college he will be introduced to a fitness program and the weight machines and that could realistically add another 2 - 3 mph on his pitches as his body matures.... just my 2 cents.

 

Give me a guy who gets OUTS. Whether you throw 95 or 85, it doesn't mean anything if you don't record any outs.

Too much emphasis is put on velocity. If I had to field a team, I would want to pitch guys who get outs and give us the best chance to win.

 

I think we all agree that a "pitcher" is the best prospect, but when one is recruiting, the 1st thing that will garner their attention is one's speed...speed kills!!!

We've all been to tournaments surrounded by scouts. The 1st inning the speed guns are up like an orchestra. If the speed is not there, down go the guns and the scouts start talking about their fishing trips. It may not be right, but it's a fact of life.

But, this scenario is only pointed towards the major D1 schools and pro scouts.

I'd like to get MLBscouts' opinion on this. Maybe things have changed somewhat with his organization.

 

You've made some great points Spectator. Throwers, however, are at all speeds...not just the speed demons. "If you have the ability to throw hard, then you better be able to "pitch" too." The reverse to this is true also. The bottom line is you better learn to pitch

 

Teach "to" ....

...the masses does not equate to success. But you cannot argue the importance of the art of control. Yes. Yes, Yes, fastballs rule. BUT only until the batters catch up to the speed of the ball. A fastball pitcher in the, say 88-94 range with no off speed change, 68-74, or a nice cutter down and away will get rocked. Pitchers no longer go the distance. Middle relievers, closers, etc. Thats what my post was intended to show that THE control guys DO have a major role in the game. So when big boy fastballer starts leaving his pitches up of the zone, and coach can't get him to step long towards the plate to bring that pitch down, two things exist. 1. he's tired and 2. bring in the guy who throws strikes. I can't teach a kid to throw 100 but I can explain to him that his off speed and control is what gets good hitters out. Just like football. Run to open up the pass, or pass to spread the defense to open up the run. Baseball is still a thinking mans game.