What is the Future of Legion?

American Legion baseball numbers dwindling


By Earl Vaughan Jr.
Scholastic sports editor

One by one, the list of Cape Fear region teams playing American Legion baseball is dwindling.

As the 2009 season begins, the only Cumberland County team playing the game is manager Doug Watts’ Hope Mills Boosters.

Around the Cape Fear region, there are just two other teams, Hoke and Whiteville.

There’s still a place for Legion baseball, said Watts and some of his players. But they’re losing the fight as the national leadership of the game refuses to change the rules to fit the times, and high school coaches and players more interested in pursuing team and individual honors seek other opportunities for playing in the summer time.

Watts, who is in the state American Legion Baseball Hall of Fame, has been coaching the summer game since 1966. He feels he owes a personal debt to the sport.

A native of Southport, Watts made the Whiteville American Legion team at the age of 17. Four years later, he earned a spot on the team at East Carolina. He still credits his Legion baseball experience for making that possible.

Now 76, Watts is again serving as manager of the Hope Mills Boosters American Legion team, trying to hold the program together in the face of challenges on multiple fronts.

One of the biggest is cost.

Every home game, the Hope Mills team has to pay $80 apiece for two umpires. When they take to the road, the cost of renting a van to transport the team has risen beyond reason. So Watts said they try to get parents to convoy the players to the games and provide them money to cover the expense of their gas.

“We know it’s dangerous,” Watts said of using the caravan approach rather than having everyone ride in the same vehicle. “We all try to stay together and hopefully stay out of accidents and that kind of thing.”

With fewer area teams playing this year, the Hope Mills squad is making longer trips. Included on this year’s schedule are regular-season games as far away as Brunswick and Duplin Counties, as well as Whiteville.

“The children take it better than we do as old folks,”' Watts said of the longer trips. “They have a good time, especially if we’re fortunate enough to win. We just have to live with it if we’re going to have a team.”

The reasons for fewer teams are many. One of the big ones is that a lot of individual players have turned to taking part in something called Showcase. Showcase takes some of the best players in an area, puts them on one team, and then brings them to a central location where they perform against similar Showcase teams.

These events, often held in college stadiums on the weekends, attract numerous scouts.

Manny Beltran, a Hope Mills player who went to high school at South View, said he’s played both Legion baseball and Showcase. “The main thing that’s hurting Legion baseball is the rise of Showcase,”' he said. “College coaches aren’t going to come watch just one guy. They’re going to watch games where there are eight or nine teams with nothing but college prospects on the field.”

Short of hype
Jack Britt’s Tyler Underwood, who will attend Southeastern Community College this fall, said players are drawn to Showcase because of the chance for individual exposure. “They think it’s going to get them a lot more at bats in front of scouts, but you really don’t,” he said. “People built it up to be a lot more than it really is.”

Dale Urquhart, who plays for South View and Hope Mills, agreed with Underwood that Legion baseball has benefits Showcase doesn’t.

“You’ve got coaches who have been around a long time, that can call college coaches and talk to scouts out there for you,” Urquhart said. “Legion ball is just like Showcase, sometimes even better. You’ve got a variety of players, older kids.”

But some former Legion coaches who also work with high school baseball say those older players are part of the problem with Legion baseball. The rules were changed a few years ago to allow 19-year-olds to play. That meant some college freshman were eligible again, but it also took up spots on the Legion teams once occupied by high school players.

“The high school coaches believed it would be more beneficial for them to use their own kids” Watts said. “I think the quality of American Legion baseball is as good as ever, but maybe better because of the 19-year-old kids coming back. But it's hurt the number of teams able to play.”

Two long-time Fayetteville coaches who got out partly for that reason were Brad Barbour and Wendell Smith. Barbour has been a head baseball coach at both Seventy-First and Douglas Byrd high schools and has worked with Legion baseball for 31 years. Smith’s father, Carter, founded the Stedman American Legion program in 1984. The younger Smith is a former assistant coach and currently head baseball coach at Cape Fear.

No rule modification
In addition to the age limit change, Barbour said one reason he got out was the refusal of national American Legion baseball officials to modify the rules of the game. Legion baseball is still played under basic National League baseball rules, which include nine-inning games and no liberal substitution.

Barbour said high school coaches can use more players with high school rules, including the ability to re-enter players in the lineup and use courtesy runners for pitchers and catchers.

Barbour agreed with Watts that cost was also an issue. “We were paying from $200 to $225 per game, counting the umpires, balls, renting the field and so forth,” he said. “Then you had your initial setup fee, entry fee and insurance.”

That didn’t even count the price of gas and trying to rent a van to transport the players, Barbour said.

Smith said another problem Legion baseball causes now that it didn’t used to is the early start. The Hope Mills team played its first game of the season on May 29 at Brunswick County. High schools are still in session at that time, and Smith said coaches like himself who teach have to deal with end-of-course tests for their students.

“Those days are over,” he said of trying to field a Legion team while end-of-course testing is in progress. “My principal is not going to let me play Legion baseball during that time we’re reviewing and testing. Testing is a big thing now, and a lot of these teams are coached by high school coaches.”

New league
Smith, like a lot of high school coaches in the Cape Fear region, has decided to field a summer team in the Central Carolina Summer Scholastic Baseball League, organized by a couple of region high school coaches. The league does not begin play until June 15, it only plays games Monday through Thursday so it never conflicts with Showcase, and it allows the high school coach to work directly with the players he'll be seeing on his team next spring.

Six of the 10 Cumberland County senior high schools and two Fayetteville private schools are competing in the scholastic league this season.

Smith’s Cape Fear team is in its second year in the scholastic league. But he said it was not an easy decision to walk away from Legion baseball after more than 20 years with the sport. “When you refuse to change, it can pass you by,” Smith said. “My dad said to do what’s best for the program at Cape Fear.”

Watts admits that changing the rules is a sore spot for the national American Legion officials. “I believe it would be better if we had the re-entry rule,” he said. “A seven-inning rule would help.

“But the colleges and the pros play nine innings. What nine does is make you have more pitching. If you don’t have pitching, you don’t move on to the state finals.”

Watts sometimes wonders why the national leaders don’t ask people like himself who’ve been in the game for a long time to share their opinions on what changes would help.

“Our commissioners tell us the people at the top make the rules, and if we don’t want to go by them, hang it up,” Watts said. “It’s really tough sometimes.”

Suppose, Watts said, his team has a five-run lead with two innings to play and he’d like to sub in some of his high school juniors and seniors. If he had a re-entry rule, and the reserves couldn’t hold the lead, he could put his older starters back on the field.

As it is, with the Legion regular season only lasting a month and each game being crucial, he’s got to stay with his veterans. “The young kids don’t get the chance to play,” he said. “That’s why they say what’s the use of sitting on this bench when I can go back to high school and be starting.

“It’s a problem.”

And it shows as Legion teams keep disappearing.

 

Follow the $$$$$$

Hoping, wishing, wringing our hands.....that will not change anything. If you want a different outcome then something has to be done (work, effort, creativity, fight the good battle, etc). The world we live in is defined by change, not by status quo. Usually, things in life are driven by two powerful forces: money and sex. We'll leave the second one alone here, but the $$$ are the driving force behind the decline of Legion baseball. Follow the money:

1. Player and parents have a heightened desire to earn, win or buy that partial baseball scholarship more than ever. Cut down on those crazy college costs or get Junior in to college via baseball is a family financial plan for some. For others, its about the prestige of it or just for the opportunity to keep playing this intoxicating game.

2. Parents willingly subscribe to the notion that to achieve #1, Junior must be "seen" by as many scouts as possible and the parents are willing to pay ($$$) for the opportunity to put Junior in front of those special eyes.

3. Scouts & college coaches must be as efficient as possible (save $$$) in their hunt for the talent to make their program successful ($$$) or at least to keep it in the good graces of the Athletic Director and school administrators. To do so, they gladly support the Showcase programs where they are served up huge helpings of talented prospects with less travel costs and windshield time expended.

4. For profit Showcase operators are making their living by creating these opportunities and from the associated team fees, participation fees, lessons, scouting services, etc and they should not be begrudged their effort to earn a good living doing so. In doing so, they are providing very appealing and exciting venues to play on....where would most kids rather play? A typical showcase team will play at Virginia Tech, Wake Forest, Appalachian State, UNCC, Elon, etc. The local Legion team will play at the nearby high schools. That is a very appealing draw for young players as it gives them a vision of what it would be like to play at the next level.

So, the shift away from Legion ball is a natural evolution....the dollar is leading the migration and thousands of people and their dollars are fully engaged. When the Legion programs are not responding with the same type of exposure opportunity then their player pool is diminished and the quality of play declines over time....and ultimately the gate ($$$) suffers and people find something else to do with their time. While a good Legion game used at attract hundreds of fans (and still does in pockets) many games are left with mostly family members in the stands. The loyal Legion fan from years ago is an aging fan with their own set of daily challenges.

I have seen both sides of it personally. Last summer, I attended a Senior Legion game north of Hickory to see a local Charlotte player compete. Both teams had some quality players, but depth was a problem and a few of the players on both teams performed at a JV level...in front of a about 50 fans. I am also hearing of many talented players opting for the local Junior Legion and Legion programs, so maybe there will be some resurgence there. They all say they are having a blast.

By the looks of the scores around Charlotte lately, the quality pitchers may be playing elsewhere....teams seem to be averaging about 15-18 runs a game....saw one in today's Observer that was 25-19, or something like that.

 

I've noticed some improvement in the Greensboro/High Point area. Legio is showing not only some growth but the talent level is strong. For a variety of reasons.

I think cost is a factor in this economy. Many have mentioned it.

Not as many scouts show up at showcase as many want you to believe. The big events are wonderful (East Cobb, Jupiter, Ft. Myers and a few good regional events) but a lot of these weekend events only have 2-3 schools maximum represented. And for us, they were not schools my son had an interest in attending. Everyone has their own priorities but for us it was education.

In my opinion, it's not just about getting on a showcase team but you need to get on the right ones. there are several good programs in this state but I think you need to be with a program that has a great coach with credibility or a program with a strong marketing program.

There is a lot of hype and marketing in baseball. Some is well-deserved through consistent excellent play. Some, not so sure about.

One thing I do feel strongly about, summer ball and even fall ball is important. Ragsdale had a strong team this year and while we had tons of pro scouts at our games, we were surprised at how few college scouts were there. I saw this, we lived this. I don't need someone to tell me otherwise. You better do something outside of HS ball.

Subject for another day but you guys are concerned about Legion is going, and I agree. But I am concerned about where HS ball is going.

 

By my above post I was not trying to change the thread direction.

Legion in our area is growing some. Another reason for that is the people running it. They have done a good job. I think that is another factor. Legion will only be as good as the local management. JMO.

Personally, I wish it would grow.

 

All showcase is not the same....

You are right..there is quite a variety of showcase programs. When showcase was starting out, it was for the elite teams and players. Then many USSSA-type travel teams decided that they were showcase caliber and things started to get watered down. If you were playing one of those teams at one of the satellite fields (typically HS field, and sometimes poorly maintained) it sure didn't feel like a "showcase" event. True showcase events are invitation-only and the competition is high-grade.

Local showcase events are scouted but mostly at the older age group and at the premier facilities. At App. State last week the schedule was built to have the 2010 teams play each other at App State (with many scouts in attendance) while the younger teams get one game at the premier site and play the rest at satellite fields. The younger guys are getting themselves in the pipeline to be the ones playing at the right locations with scouts in attendance...their day will come. National showcase events are covered up with scouts and all ages get some looks, particularly if you are with a respected program or playing a team from a respected program.

 

Future of Legion

Like most things in life, "change" is what affects Legion Baseball. I grew up in a small Johnston County town, graduating high school in 1980. Back then, there was ONE Legion team for all of Johnston County and the tryouts were by invitation only. My legion coach was also a high school umpire so he had the ability to see all of the players in the county. Playing legion baseball was considered to be an "honor" - frankly, during my high school years, legion baseball was the only "game in town".

I was thrilled when my son finally had the chance to play legion ball this summer (we took a pass on the collegiate wood bat league). I encouraged him to play legion ball because, honestly, I had played. I wanted him to have that experience. Thanks to the re-formation of Raleigh Post 1, he had the opportunity to get that experience. He is thoroughly enjoying it!

I graduated from North Johnston in 1980 - a small 2A school. At the time, Johnston County only had Princeton (1A); North Johnston (2A); Clayton (2A); South Johnston (3A); and Smithfiel-Selma (4A). We at North had the chance to play Princeton and Clayton but not South or SSS. It was an honor to get to play with some of the guys I read about in the Smithfield Herald. Guys like Roger Hudson, Pete Norris, Joe Stephenson, Peanut Langston, Nelson Daniels, Stan Watson, Richard Durham, and others. It was, for me, a valuable experience.

In 2009, baseball players have a LOT of options. I get the sense that a lot of kids do not see Legion as an "honor" but rather an "option". Given those options, families may decide to play the weekend "Showcase Circuit" rather than experience the daily/nightly grind of legion.

I cannot say which is better nor would I attempt to tell others what to do. However, legion baseball more similarly mirrors a collegiate atmosphere. At our small D1 University, we play 2 or 3 "mid-week games" and then games on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. Most colleges play approximately 50 regular season games during a 10 - week period (February - May). A lot of kids playing legion ball have summer jobs which means they work all day then play ball at night. In college, the kids have class all day and play ball in the afternoon/nights.

In Showcase ball, you typically play 3 or 4 games between Friday and Sunday. Which is better? One has to decide for oneself after carefully evaluating all he options.

In my opinion, the grind of legion better prepares a player for college baseball. I am a fan AND supporter of Showcase Baseball (my son did that too). Both "options" have their benefits. As for me and my son, I am glad he had the opportunity to do both.

 

Trying to stay out of this discussion, we hear exactly what CBS says from college coaches all the time, AL mirrors a college game, but the college scouts do not show up. I do feel the 19 yr. rule has hurt, we have 2 division one college players & 1 returning college student playing for us, they all wanted to play and we are glad to have all 3. We also have something like 11, High School Seniors. Several had played showcase ball and have their deals and decided to play Legion this year. Under current rules all are eleigible to return next year except 1. So in turn that leaves us with 4 or 5 17 year olds. We do have a strong Junior program, but these 17 yr. olds that played varsity baseball do not want to play Juniors. (and I sorta understand why) Rising HS seniors want to play on the Senior team. Which in turn goes back to why Legion ball is not scouted as much. I do want to thank the Community Colleges that seem to be at alot of our games.

Now, the other thing is dual participation. We do not usually use them, but maybe forced to beach week with all the seniors we have on this team. I sat down and filled out that form last night, wondering WHY do I have to do this? The head coach should decide WHO he wants to play. If he wants to risk the chemistry of his team with part time players that should be his choice. In our case we will need several of these players, along with some from our Junior team, beach week.

After all this, I still beleive that Legion is great baseball, but they do need to change with the times.

 

College Coaches Not Showing Up

There are many reasons college coaches do not come to Legion games.
1. I never have to ask Showcase organizers for their schedules. they flood the college coaches with information about their events. I have to "round up" legion schedules on my own.

2. Economy - travel budgets are being redced. Showcase events are usually in one or two locations over the course of a weekend. ECONOMICS 101 - minimize cost, maximize the chance to see more players.

3. Most legion teams have players who have already committed to a collegiate program.

At this point in the year, we are working on the 2010 class AND looking to fill a specific need in our 2009 class. In other words, we attend a legion game IF there is a specific player who interests us. I would recommend that ANY unsigned senior playing legion ball contact the school(s) in which he is interested. Send us a schedule - tells us you are interested. If you play a position we have a need to fill, we will be there! Trust me ~ final grades are being submitted ~ there will be some early signees that do not make it through the Clearinghouse. Spots will be available.

 

Legion has to Change.

and the players and thier parents need to be educated on the real values of Legion and Showcase. Legion should change to a reentry rule, Eliminate 19yr old eligibility, and modify the schedule to allow some exposure to the player that is invited to play in allstar or showcase events. Since there are less teams the Playoff should take less time and therefore can be schedule more efficiently.
But that is for the players.. the parents sould look at the real cost of other types of baseball and the vaule benefit gain from a scholarship. If you spend 3 to 5 k per year your soph,jr, and sr yr chasing a scholarship the 9 to 15 k would be better utilized as a college fund. Most players can market themselves better by contacting the coaches and asking for a visit and personal contact. the elite programs will find the top 20 players the rest are left to them selves and i mean to themselves..
Play basseball becuase you enjoy it and you will play better.. i have seen it first hand this year and i am very proud my son is smarter than me.

 

yes, but....

You are right....many parents will spend $5,000 + per year in the "pursuit". It adds up quickly when you consider all costs (team fees, lessons, hotel, gas, food, ID showcase fees, camps, etc). The value of the scholarship attained in many cases doesn't compare on a dollar for dollar basis. On the other hand, many parents and players will tell you that their showcase experience is more than just the "pursuit". Playing in exciting venues (Perfect Game, USA baseball, major college stadiums, etc) provides exciting family times and great memories. The players love the big-time venues and there is something to be said for that and some value to be had.....it's not all just a $$$ calculation.