What's your take on this pitching schedule?

Olefty is 100% correct in this. He's a very good man and a very good coach

 

Thanks for the kind words. He is doing well (6 weeks after) and the rehab is going very good. He did go through the tough mental part already and he got through that, so the future looks bright. Thanks again for your concern.

I know that I am old school about running the poles, but I was always taught that running the poles moved the lactic acid out of the system. Maybe I'm wrong (it won't be the first time).

 

Here are the pitch counts for the above innings respectively:
80,54,53,75.....nothing excessive I don't believe. My question was aimed more at the period of rest. I should have made that clear.

 

PhillyDave....I don't know if it's true or not about the "latic acid" but I know running is a part of my son's routine in the minors....when he's not pitching they have him running and running and running some more.

The part that always bother me is the number of pitches kids throw today...my son is in his 2nd season in the minor leagues and their foucs is on "number of pitches thrown"....not inninngs. If the Pro guys focus on this why wouldn't you do it at the High School / College level? I know the answer....it's about the wins!!! I truely respect the High School coaches that put the Kids arm first before the "wins and losses"...

 

I'm on the list of those who believe that kids do not throw enough every day. It stands to reason that if a marathoner can train for a marathon by running, then a pitcher can train to pitch by throwing(DUH?), albeit with a few caveats tossed in there(unintentional pun). Lots of throwing just for fun, not necessarily with a purpose every time you go out to toss. Another thing that is important to me about being conditioned to pitch, is making sure you have sound mechanics. Not only to be able to repeat a delivery, but to allow your body to assist with the throw as much as possible, and to assist with the deceleration of the arm. Use some weighted baseballs every now and then.

 

Just curious? Does anyone have any examples of guys who have legitimately been hurt by throwing more late in the post-season?

Also, just for fun......everyone remember Randy Johnson during the World Series a few years back?

 

here we go

By the way good topic to have on this board. A lot of good questions, opinions, and experiences. This is what this board is for... informative matters such as this.

I have a lot of different theories on a lot of different injuries, i.e. tears, overuse, and strains. Also on different types of ligaments. I believe the UCL (Ulnar Collateral Ligament, Tommy John) is not an overuse injury ligament. Of course this ligament can get tendinitis etc., what I'm referring to is the tear. I believe the UCL tears, because of a few issues.

Ulnar Collateral Ligament - Tommy John
1) The kids arm speed is so great that ligament cannot withstand the amount of pressure with which the combo of the body and arm are creating. (Has anyone ever met somebody that had Tommy John that did not have an Exceptional arm?) You don't have TJ if you don't throw hard. period. If your an 80 mph guy and you throw 750 pitches every three days. TJ won't be the answer. You'll have severe shoulder issues and maybe an overuse injury in the elbow. i.e. tendonitis.

2) There also may be an imbalance in strength or alignment of Hips, shoulders, and spine. So many times we say to kids... Get in the weight room. My question... What are you doing in the weight room? If you are being overzealous with a certain excerise or strengthening one part of your body you are probably negating the "opposite" muscle of the one that you are working. The way our musculature works is its a series of flexion and extensions, pushes and pulls, with muscles that work against each other to propel something in a direction. If one muscle is overdeveloped then the other has an insufficiency. Most muscle insufficiencies lead to a problem. Kids correct that by changing slots and most importantly overcompensating with another muscle. This problem can put any ligament in your body at risk for a tear. (in my opinion) Guys that throw exceptionally hard or "move faster" with an insufficiency in strength are at even more risk.

3) My biggest problem. Preparation. Or lack there of. What O'lefty was trying to say earlier and I think people mistook him a little was imperitive for coaches and parents to hear. If you prepare yourself to do something physically the body is an incredible thing. It will adapt and be able to handle it. The answer is not going out twice a week playing catch at 80% and throwing one bullpen session at 80%, and long tossing once a week at 80%. While 4 days later you can't expect to have prepared yourself to throw 100-125 pitches at 100% and mixing in pitches from the windup and stretch, curveballs and changeups. Your body won't handle it. Something will give. Once again if your sons' arm is exceptional be even more wary because he is at even more risk. Has anyone seen Roger Clemens workout, Nolan Ryans routine? Has anyone watched the Ron Woolforth crew train? All of these guys training regimens are excrusciating. They Prepare themselves or their understudies to be explosive for that amount of pitches. They Prepare.


What's Too Much?

Coach 27 is right. Rest is a necessity for recovery. Someone said running is for a lactic acid flush. I agree, but for only that reason, nothing else. Other than a flush, it is not worth a hill of beans. (exactly what O'lefty said earlier. And if you look in his five day plan he has a FLUSH DAY).

I try to give my guys atleast three days not on a game mound after a start in which they crossed the 100 pitch plateau. If they do get back on the mound with only three days "Rest" then it will be for an inning or so in relief.

In High School, things that I would watch closely for...

1) look for an extended amount of pitches in one particular inning. i.e. 15, 15, 16, 42. Although that is only 4 innings and 88 total pitches. He just put himself through an extremely long inning in which he exhausted himself. Be wary of the next inning he goes out. Maybe an arm issue in the fifth.

2) Severe postural differences. If your son's slot drops in the seventh at 90 pitches. There may be a problem. Leg's get tired. Starts pushing offspeed. Every Fastball stays on his armside and up. Guys... HE'S TIRED!!! Don't take him any farther than this. If your pitching guy visits and he still can't make an adjustment. Time to make a change.

3) Coach 27 your right again. Don't let the kid dictate your decision. He will always tell you he can go one more. Kids don't know! You may not either, but you should know more than he does. My suggestion... Know your pitchers' or kids. See when they get tired and know what they look like when they are tired. Pitching too often isn't always the problem and throwing too many pitches on the norm isn't always the problem. It's how these kids go about their number and rest that is my biggest issue. Don't treat everybody the same because they're different. Have a plan!

These are just my opinions.

 

Just my opinion

It only takes one throw too many to cause serious injury; even with professionals. We as parents and coaches want our kids to train as much as possible to strengthen their bodies and improve. We often say conflicting things that a kid should throw, throw, and throw some more, but make sure you get proper amounts of rest. Injuries often occur as a result of poor mechanics (I hate using that term) whether it is throwing, or hitting. When we work in the batting cage, we only take 6-8 cuts, stop for one minute and go again. Bullpen is the same.20-30 & stop- go again, and continue to build on the number of pitches.
My point is that when the body weakens we are more apt to become injured and/or develop bad mechanics. Where is the line or is there a line? Is it strictly up to the individual/coach?

 

Agree.

If they make it to the next level, they may be able to pitch for a while before having surgery. At the college level pitchers have coaches that do nothing but that area of the game.They know the limits of a arm can do, and has stable full to use. They get proper workouts and preventative rehab before something happens. Knowing that there are many out there that have great knowledge of the game, but are just not pitching coaches only. Most have been hired due thier overall knowledge. Then there are those that just want the "W" AND DO NOT CARE ABOUT THE PRICE!! If you have two good pitchers in high school you have something most do not. Develop your program. Spliting the game up with picthers that give them differant looks, this increases the odds of success. It is better than working one kid to death for a game. I wonder how many kids have lost thier chance of something better because of being the hero of the day.

 

This is one of the most informative posts ever on this board. We are so fortunate to have college pitching coaches helping us with their advice.