Who gets the error?

Had this happen in a recent game.

Runner on 1st-pitcher steps off and makes a good throw to the 1st baseman. The sun is directly in the kids eyes and the ball goes right by his glove. Who gets it- E1 or E3?

I think its sorta like a wild pitch/past ball pitcher catcher situation. If its a good throw-E3, if its a bad throw E1.

 

E - Coach

Have some sunglasses on the bench for goodness sakes...

 

easy one - error on first baseman every time. Key factor was the throw from the pitcher was described as a good throw.

 

Sun or no sun, if the ball was catchable, then I agree E3.

 

Errors are the judgment of the official scorer. No brainer...

 

E1----They never give an error to the 1st baseman.

 

This thread demonstrates how confusing baseball scoring is and how many see the same play differently. Based on what I read here, this is a simple play and an error on the first baseman is the right call, but not everyone sees it that way.

I've been reading a book on proper scoring in baseball. Scoring is very complicated and at the high school level, most games are not scored properly (not that they ever were or ever will be)....when you read about the proper way, it's almost always shocking, because mostly know one does it that way. Example: runner breaks from first to steal and the catcher makes a good throw to second base, the runner is out by a couple of steps, but the shortstop is anxious to apply the tag to the sliding runner and leaves the ball in the dirt. Most scorers at the HS level would score that a stolen base. Proper scoring (according to the book I am reading) is E6, catcher gets an assist and the runner is not credited with a stolen base......all of the above because in the judgement of the scorer a reasonable effort by the fielder should have recorded an out. In this case, two of the core principles of scoring are illustrated. First, many scoring decisions are judgement decisions by the official scorer....an application of scoring principles to what was just seen by the scorer. In this case the scorer has to judge if a reasonable effort by the SS would have recorded the out. There are literally hundreds of other situations where the scorer has to exercise judgement. Secondly, proper scoring takes into the consideration the interests of all parties in the scoring outcome. A base runner who should have been out should not be credited with a stolen base and a catcher who by all rights should be watching the runner trot back to the dugout should not be denied his skillful assist.....all of this while the runner is still standing on second base. A better example of equitable scoring is the situation where a less than routine ground ball (but not overly tough) is mishandled by the fielder and the subsequent throw doesn't get the runner. Many scorers take the easy path and score it a hit...that way the runner gets the hit and the fielder is not saddled with an error. But what about the scoring interest of the pitcher? The scoring decision could have a huge effect on the pitcher's ERA, particularly if the out could have ended the inning. Here, the scorer has to judge if the fielder could have retired the batter with reasonable physical effort, customarily displayed at this level of play (high school). Certainly, there is wide variability on how to calculate ERA, based on what happened in a given inning particularly when there are lots of runners and multiple miscues to be considered.

Wide variability in the application of proper scoring principles leads to some suspect statistics. When you see someone batting .686 there is probably a liberal scorer involved...not a bad person, just liberal in the way they keep the book.

I highly recommend the book, Baseball Scorekeeping, a Practical Guide to the Rules, by Andres Wirkmaa. I'm not finished with it yet, but it has provided some interesting perspective, for sure.

 

Great Observation L&S

Many people think that if a fielder did not get his glove on a ball then it is not an error.

This is not correct - mincmi will tell you the same thing you explained - if with normal effort the play should have been made then it is an error.

Example: A routine pop up to the infield between third and short. The SS and third baseman have a small debate about who will catch it while it is in the air and they both back off and let the ball drop. This would be unfair to the pitcher to score as a hit - as he did his job to induce the pop up from the batter.

 

I officiated college basketball, and one of the first rules hammered into my peahead was: Don't ever make a call that nobody wants. (Yea, double-negative...but it punctuates the point).

If a kid steals a base or gets a hit and you score it otherwise...even if you're right, you're wrong! If you don't believe it, wait until he sees the scorebook. As the Good Book says: The letter of the Law kills, but the spirit gives life!

 

Amen to that brother!!! I "score" on the principal, that if a play should be made but is not, it's an error. It's definitly not an exact science and the official scorer can be a friend or the most hated person in the world.

What ever happened to those "Coach Pitch" days of "if ya get on base, it's a hit"?